1/4 mile predictions
04-10-2015, 07:12 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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1/4 mile predictions Hi, I will be picking one up real soon and the gears have already been turning in my head lol 
1999 LS1 A4 Z28 Camaro
mods planned:
SLP Lid
DiabloSport custom tune
3.73 gears
3800 stall Yank torque converter
Bias Ply racing tire out back
Skinnies on 15's up front
Exhaust cut outs
Rear lower control arms
12.5@110mph sound about right??
1999 LS1 A4 Z28 Camaro
mods planned:
SLP Lid
DiabloSport custom tune
3.73 gears
3800 stall Yank torque converter
Bias Ply racing tire out back
Skinnies on 15's up front
Exhaust cut outs
Rear lower control arms
12.5@110mph sound about right??
04-13-2015, 10:20 PM
#2
Staging Lane
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What about a PTU 3800 stall
drag radials
SLP lid
Diablo custom tune
180 t stat
stock 2.73 gears
A4
Are these results typical? if so, I'd be happy with just a converter and the stock gearing!
drag radials
SLP lid
Diablo custom tune
180 t stat
stock 2.73 gears
A4
Are these results typical? if so, I'd be happy with just a converter and the stock gearing!
04-13-2015, 11:11 PM
#4
Staging Lane
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If a converter and the stock 2.74's react so well, what's the point of gears? Does not look like the car in the video needs any gearing ( 2.74 a4) with that 3800 stall.
04-14-2015, 03:15 AM
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I agree, there is very little point to a gear swap if you intend to do a 3500+ stall speed on an LS1/4L60E combo. With the aggressive 3.06:1 first gear ratio of a 4L60E, and a stall speed well matched to the LS1 powerband, you won't see more than about 1 tenth of ET reduction with a swap to 3.73s.
The only real benefit to a gear swap, once you already have a stall, is to give the car a tighter "feel" for around town driving. Some people are more bothered by this than others, but personally I always recommend the higher stall converter first as there is little additional point to the gear swap unless you find you're one of the few that is bothered by the "looseness" of the higher stall speed.
Gear swaps show much bigger gains on cars with stock stall speeds. Much of this gain is negated (and far surpassed) by picking a stall speed that is well matched to the powerband.
The popularity of gear swaps for auto trans cars comes from a time when internal 1st gear ratios were much less aggressive, higher stall converters were much less efficient and, to a lesser degree, converters didn't have a lock-up clutch. For these cars, the swap is only worth it for people looking to squeeze out every last ounce of performance, and/or the folks who find themsevles bothered by the looser feel of the higher stall.
Unless you can install the gears yourself, the overall cost between these two mods is similar, but the gains from a better stall speed are MUCH greater. Additionally, you won't lose any highway MPG with the higher stall speed, thanks to the lock-up feature. Gear swaps also come with the risk of gear whine, depending on your installer and the quality of gears.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 04-14-2015 at 03:21 AM.
04-14-2015, 12:17 PM
#7
On The Tree
Base gear was a 2.73, not 2.74.
I agree, there is very little point to a gear swap if you intend to do a 3500+ stall speed on an LS1/4L60E combo. With the aggressive 3.06:1 first gear ratio of a 4L60E, and a stall speed well matched to the LS1 powerband, you won't see more than about 1 tenth of ET reduction with a swap to 3.73s.
The only real benefit to a gear swap, once you already have a stall, is to give the car a tighter "feel" for around town driving. Some people are more bothered by this than others, but personally I always recommend the higher stall converter first as there is little additional point to the gear swap unless you find you're one of the few that is bothered by the "looseness" of the higher stall speed.
Gear swaps show much bigger gains on cars with stock stall speeds. Much of this gain is negated (and far surpassed) by picking a stall speed that is well matched to the powerband.
The popularity of gear swaps for auto trans cars comes from a time when internal 1st gear ratios were much less aggressive, higher stall converters were much less efficient and, to a lesser degree, converters didn't have a lock-up clutch. For these cars, the swap is only worth it for people looking to squeeze out every last ounce of performance, and/or the folks who find themsevles bothered by the looser feel of the higher stall.
Unless you can install the gears yourself, the overall cost between these two mods is similar, but the gains from a better stall speed are MUCH greater. Additionally, you won't lose any highway MPG with the higher stall speed, thanks to the lock-up feature. Gear swaps also come with the risk of gear whine, depending on your installer and the quality of gears.
I agree, there is very little point to a gear swap if you intend to do a 3500+ stall speed on an LS1/4L60E combo. With the aggressive 3.06:1 first gear ratio of a 4L60E, and a stall speed well matched to the LS1 powerband, you won't see more than about 1 tenth of ET reduction with a swap to 3.73s.
The only real benefit to a gear swap, once you already have a stall, is to give the car a tighter "feel" for around town driving. Some people are more bothered by this than others, but personally I always recommend the higher stall converter first as there is little additional point to the gear swap unless you find you're one of the few that is bothered by the "looseness" of the higher stall speed.
Gear swaps show much bigger gains on cars with stock stall speeds. Much of this gain is negated (and far surpassed) by picking a stall speed that is well matched to the powerband.
The popularity of gear swaps for auto trans cars comes from a time when internal 1st gear ratios were much less aggressive, higher stall converters were much less efficient and, to a lesser degree, converters didn't have a lock-up clutch. For these cars, the swap is only worth it for people looking to squeeze out every last ounce of performance, and/or the folks who find themsevles bothered by the looser feel of the higher stall.
Unless you can install the gears yourself, the overall cost between these two mods is similar, but the gains from a better stall speed are MUCH greater. Additionally, you won't lose any highway MPG with the higher stall speed, thanks to the lock-up feature. Gear swaps also come with the risk of gear whine, depending on your installer and the quality of gears.
OP; add longtubes, ram air and quality tune(nothing Diablosport related, Frost or other mail order/HP Tuners style) to your list and work on cracking 11s. Get yourself a PT4000 Yank and do work.
- Drew
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04-14-2015, 04:24 PM
#8
Staging Lane
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Base gear was a 2.73, not 2.74.
I agree, there is very little point to a gear swap if you intend to do a 3500+ stall speed on an LS1/4L60E combo. With the aggressive 3.06:1 first gear ratio of a 4L60E, and a stall speed well matched to the LS1 powerband, you won't see more than about 1 tenth of ET reduction with a swap to 3.73s.
The only real benefit to a gear swap, once you already have a stall, is to give the car a tighter "feel" for around town driving. Some people are more bothered by this than others, but personally I always recommend the higher stall converter first as there is little additional point to the gear swap unless you find you're one of the few that is bothered by the "looseness" of the higher stall speed.
Gear swaps show much bigger gains on cars with stock stall speeds. Much of this gain is negated (and far surpassed) by picking a stall speed that is well matched to the powerband.
The popularity of gear swaps for auto trans cars comes from a time when internal 1st gear ratios were much less aggressive, higher stall converters were much less efficient and, to a lesser degree, converters didn't have a lock-up clutch. For these cars, the swap is only worth it for people looking to squeeze out every last ounce of performance, and/or the folks who find themsevles bothered by the looser feel of the higher stall.
Unless you can install the gears yourself, the overall cost between these two mods is similar, but the gains from a better stall speed are MUCH greater. Additionally, you won't lose any highway MPG with the higher stall speed, thanks to the lock-up feature. Gear swaps also come with the risk of gear whine, depending on your installer and the quality of gears.
I agree, there is very little point to a gear swap if you intend to do a 3500+ stall speed on an LS1/4L60E combo. With the aggressive 3.06:1 first gear ratio of a 4L60E, and a stall speed well matched to the LS1 powerband, you won't see more than about 1 tenth of ET reduction with a swap to 3.73s.
The only real benefit to a gear swap, once you already have a stall, is to give the car a tighter "feel" for around town driving. Some people are more bothered by this than others, but personally I always recommend the higher stall converter first as there is little additional point to the gear swap unless you find you're one of the few that is bothered by the "looseness" of the higher stall speed.
Gear swaps show much bigger gains on cars with stock stall speeds. Much of this gain is negated (and far surpassed) by picking a stall speed that is well matched to the powerband.
The popularity of gear swaps for auto trans cars comes from a time when internal 1st gear ratios were much less aggressive, higher stall converters were much less efficient and, to a lesser degree, converters didn't have a lock-up clutch. For these cars, the swap is only worth it for people looking to squeeze out every last ounce of performance, and/or the folks who find themsevles bothered by the looser feel of the higher stall.
Unless you can install the gears yourself, the overall cost between these two mods is similar, but the gains from a better stall speed are MUCH greater. Additionally, you won't lose any highway MPG with the higher stall speed, thanks to the lock-up feature. Gear swaps also come with the risk of gear whine, depending on your installer and the quality of gears.
I ran a 3200 and 3500 in my 09 Charger RT and it was pretty loose but I was fine with it considering how well it launched and punched it out of the hole. I became used to it I just don't want it to constantly flare or slip at wide open throttle into the next gear ( heat!).
Are you guys also running upgraded shift pressures or keep them stock.
I can't imagine how aggressive the shifts would be with 3.73's lol.. from the video it looks perfect for what I plan on doing. Just a simple bolt on drag car, nothing fancy engine/trans wise except for a decent stall.
I can do both the converter and gears as I have done them before.
I am moving to an Emissions state in a year or so and don't wanna run long tubes or h/f cats. I also may be driving cross country as well.. daily driver, weekend warrior sort of deal. I'd rather spend it on suspension parts and tires (slicks/skinnies) over long tubes. I don't mind running a cat less H or X pipe and tune for it rather than long lubes. Not sure if it helps on LS1's or not.
I seen the 4000 in action.. kind of intimidating lol
04-15-2015, 08:49 AM
#10
On The Tree
Hard to put stalls 'in a box' with stall speed.
Not all '3800s' will drive like the one in the video. That one has a decent shift extension, keeping the car in the powerband between shifts. That's a good thing, you want that. The trade off is it feeling a bit looser. The benefit is that you will also notice the converter from a roll, not just from a stop. Making it very worthwhile.
Any decent stall is going blow street tires off, you'll need drag radials on the street to put anything wothwhile to the ground.
If you aren't doing headers, a 3inch Y pipe into a cutout will be your best bet and just keep the stock catback.
- Drew
Not all '3800s' will drive like the one in the video. That one has a decent shift extension, keeping the car in the powerband between shifts. That's a good thing, you want that. The trade off is it feeling a bit looser. The benefit is that you will also notice the converter from a roll, not just from a stop. Making it very worthwhile.
Any decent stall is going blow street tires off, you'll need drag radials on the street to put anything wothwhile to the ground.
If you aren't doing headers, a 3inch Y pipe into a cutout will be your best bet and just keep the stock catback.
- Drew
04-15-2015, 02:30 PM
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As mentioned above, traction is going to be a major problem with any decent aftermarket stall and normal street tires. You will have to learn to ease into it for best launch on the street. Even stock, these cars already make enough power/torque to destroy any "normal" street tire on a max effort launch with a ~3800 stall speed, so it will take some practice and experimentation to find the compromise between best launch and smoke show.
04-15-2015, 03:42 PM
#12
Staging Lane
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Hard to put stalls 'in a box' with stall speed.
Not all '3800s' will drive like the one in the video. That one has a decent shift extension, keeping the car in the powerband between shifts. That's a good thing, you want that. The trade off is it feeling a bit looser. The benefit is that you will also notice the converter from a roll, not just from a stop. Making it very worthwhile.
Any decent stall is going blow street tires off, you'll need drag radials on the street to put anything wothwhile to the ground.
If you aren't doing headers, a 3inch Y pipe into a cutout will be your best bet and just keep the stock catback.
- Drew
Not all '3800s' will drive like the one in the video. That one has a decent shift extension, keeping the car in the powerband between shifts. That's a good thing, you want that. The trade off is it feeling a bit looser. The benefit is that you will also notice the converter from a roll, not just from a stop. Making it very worthwhile.
Any decent stall is going blow street tires off, you'll need drag radials on the street to put anything wothwhile to the ground.
If you aren't doing headers, a 3inch Y pipe into a cutout will be your best bet and just keep the stock catback.
- Drew
It's worth the trade off since I seen how the stock 2.73's accelerate without the converter and it looked pretty much like how it should being a stock A4.
Great idea with the Y pipe as I was considering something similar. I'll even take the risk of electronic cut outs since they're notorious for motor issues.
As mentioned above, traction is going to be a major problem with any decent aftermarket stall and normal street tires. You will have to learn to ease into it for best launch on the street. Even stock, these cars already make enough power/torque to destroy any "normal" street tire on a max effort launch with a ~3800 stall speed, so it will take some practice and experimentation to find the compromise between best launch and smoke show.
I want to eliminate any sort of lag coming from idle and when power starts to kick in ( 3500??). I am not really familiar with the LS1/Z28, I just need more seat time and an actual mod plan/goal for performance.
I love power but I love traction even more lol
04-15-2015, 06:14 PM
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Gotcha. I guess the A4 having a 2.73 rear end makes me take it lightly.. my 3.06 in the Charger feels pretty good but I have also had 3.23's on a higher revving 4.6 that also did pretty well. i guess it's better than a 2.65 gear lol
I want to eliminate any sort of lag coming from idle and when power starts to kick in ( 3500??). I am not really familiar with the LS1/Z28, I just need more seat time and an actual mod plan/goal for performance.
I love power but I love traction even more lol
I want to eliminate any sort of lag coming from idle and when power starts to kick in ( 3500??). I am not really familiar with the LS1/Z28, I just need more seat time and an actual mod plan/goal for performance.
I love power but I love traction even more lol
And then there is the matter of torque; the more if it you have, the less gear you need to feel off-the-line grunt. I've owned two of these cars with the 2.73 rear, and in both cases had no problems spinning the tires from a stop or off-idle roll, even with the larger 275mm SS/WS6 size in a high performance summer compound. To be honest, there isn't much difference between the 3.23 and 2.73 rears for these cars, even with the stock stall; I've had two of each and the difference isn't as big as some people might think. With a 3500+ stall in place, the only difference between 2.73s and 3.23s would be your perception of looseness at part throttle, any actual performance difference would be marginal at best. Again, many people have seen only about 1 tenth of ET reduction going from 2.73 to 3.73 (with a 3500+ stall already on place), so the difference between 2.73 to 3.23 will be even less on average.
Gear ratio changes are much more important for the manual trans crowd and, to a lesser degree, those with older automatics (such as TH350/400) which have much less aggressive internal 1st gear ratios. I'd always recommend playing with stall speed before gear ratio when discussing an LS1/4L60E combo.
04-16-2015, 04:25 AM
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Final drive (gear) ratio doesn't really mean much without respect to both the internal trans ratios and the powerband (torque) of the engine in question. 2.73 might not sound like much, but with a 4L60E (3.06:1 1st gear ratio) the overall ratio in first is 8.35:1. This is roughly comparable to having 3.42 gears with an old TH400 trans (3.42 x 2.48 1st gear). Obviously there is more than just first gear to consider, but as speed increases and weight becomes sprung, gear ratio has less impact than at launch.
And then there is the matter of torque; the more if it you have, the less gear you need to feel off-the-line grunt. I've owned two of these cars with the 2.73 rear, and in both cases had no problems spinning the tires from a stop or off-idle roll, even with the larger 275mm SS/WS6 size in a high performance summer compound. To be honest, there isn't much difference between the 3.23 and 2.73 rears for these cars, even with the stock stall; I've had two of each and the difference isn't as big as some people might think. With a 3500+ stall in place, the only difference between 2.73s and 3.23s would be your perception of looseness at part throttle, any actual performance difference would be marginal at best. Again, many people have seen only about 1 tenth of ET reduction going from 2.73 to 3.73 (with a 3500+ stall already on place), so the difference between 2.73 to 3.23 will be even less on average.
Gear ratio changes are much more important for the manual trans crowd and, to a lesser degree, those with older automatics (such as TH350/400) which have much less aggressive internal 1st gear ratios. I'd always recommend playing with stall speed before gear ratio when discussing an LS1/4L60E combo.
And then there is the matter of torque; the more if it you have, the less gear you need to feel off-the-line grunt. I've owned two of these cars with the 2.73 rear, and in both cases had no problems spinning the tires from a stop or off-idle roll, even with the larger 275mm SS/WS6 size in a high performance summer compound. To be honest, there isn't much difference between the 3.23 and 2.73 rears for these cars, even with the stock stall; I've had two of each and the difference isn't as big as some people might think. With a 3500+ stall in place, the only difference between 2.73s and 3.23s would be your perception of looseness at part throttle, any actual performance difference would be marginal at best. Again, many people have seen only about 1 tenth of ET reduction going from 2.73 to 3.73 (with a 3500+ stall already on place), so the difference between 2.73 to 3.23 will be even less on average.
Gear ratio changes are much more important for the manual trans crowd and, to a lesser degree, those with older automatics (such as TH350/400) which have much less aggressive internal 1st gear ratios. I'd always recommend playing with stall speed before gear ratio when discussing an LS1/4L60E combo.
would you think it's a good idea to go with a drag radial tire and the stock gearing and converter?
04-16-2015, 05:57 AM
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04-16-2015, 03:37 PM
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Staging Lane
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My mods list seems to be getting shorter and more conservative lol
I am considering just a SLP lid, tune, cut outs and solid set of drag radials...
I'd be happy running 13.0@105-107 mph but that's very very optimistic lol
04-16-2015, 09:12 PM
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I want to do a converter in the worst way but I have a lot of research to do before I choose. I don't want it too wild. I have to drive cross country and then a lot of freeway driving as well once in the city.
04-19-2015, 04:41 AM
#19
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Which brand reacts the most closely to the one in the video the above?
I have nothing but great things about the Yank SS converters so it points me in that direction.
Feedback welcome. Daily Driver/weekend warrior sort of deal..
I have nothing but great things about the Yank SS converters so it points me in that direction.
Feedback welcome. Daily Driver/weekend warrior sort of deal..
04-20-2015, 07:39 AM
#20
On The Tree
Highway driving with any converter is irrelevant as it will be locked up at anything over 45mph(or lower if its in the tune that way).
Just use a Yank SS4000 if you want decent shift extension but a pretty tight converter. I would use a PT4000, but they feel a bit looser and it seems that's what you are afraid of.
That, tune, tires, cutout(s) and relocates with control arms will put you mid-low 12s or better.
Also, invest in a ram air kit of some sort, that's .2-.3 and 1-3mph.
- Drew
Just use a Yank SS4000 if you want decent shift extension but a pretty tight converter. I would use a PT4000, but they feel a bit looser and it seems that's what you are afraid of.
That, tune, tires, cutout(s) and relocates with control arms will put you mid-low 12s or better.
Also, invest in a ram air kit of some sort, that's .2-.3 and 1-3mph.
- Drew