fuel injectors for 200 shot
12-29-2005, 01:02 AM
#2
I've seen a 200 shot on stock pump & injectors with a good tune, good plugs and good gas. Does this mean it can be done - yes. Does this mean you should do it - probably not. Start out small and work your way up. For safety, move up to a larger fuel pump and injectors. If you're car is completely stock, 8 - 40lb./hr. injectors will suffice, if you choose to juice that big of a shot, and will handle ~510hp.
12-29-2005, 01:41 AM
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It depends on what fuel system you are using and how much horsepower the engine makes. Do you have an aftermarket fuel pump, intank or external? How much RWHP does your engine produce on just the motor? Are you supporting both the engine fuel and N20 fuel on the same system? From what I've been told a SVO 40LB/HR injector on an LSX motor actually flow about 45LBS/HR of fuel which will support over 700RWHP's.
Originally Posted by THIRD-GEN92
what injector size would you guys recommend when spraying a wet 200 shot
12-29-2005, 06:46 AM
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Exactly what Robert said, you DO NOT need injectors for a WET shot!!! However you DEFINITELY need to upgrade the fuel pump and go to a step colder plugs and close the gaps according to total horsepower your expecting to make. Id go about .035 on a 200 shot. Also you must verify fuel noid operation often on a wet shot that size, personally I wont do a large shot of any type without a wide band O2 to keep track of your A/F ratio...Bigger injectors will do absolutely NOTHING for you with a wet shot.
12-29-2005, 08:15 AM
#6
AS stated above but AGAIN we have no clue if you are stock or H/C/I with other bolt-ons. So, if he is the later, the injectors will help. I would also suggest, AGAIN, with that large of a shot to get a good TUNE and take out at least 4 - 6 degrees of timing. Also, for an extra margin of safety, put in some good gas of at least 100 octane...along with the other stuff suggested.
12-29-2005, 09:03 AM
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I disagree with that statement. Stock FI's can only support x amout of HP's no matter what pump you have, they only flow to set limit.
Originally Posted by cantdrv65
Exactly what Robert said, you DO NOT need injectors for a WET shot!!! However you DEFINITELY need to upgrade the fuel pump and go to a step colder plugs and close the gaps according to total horsepower your expecting to make. Id go about .035 on a 200 shot. Also you must verify fuel noid operation often on a wet shot that size, personally I wont do a large shot of any type without a wide band O2 to keep track of your A/F ratio...Bigger injectors will do absolutely NOTHING for you with a wet shot.
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12-29-2005, 09:20 AM
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When not given any other info than the stated question, stick to it. Dont go assuming all the other things, it does you no good. The guy asked what fuel injectors he'd need for a WET 200shot, I say stock and anyone that wantws to argue it come on over. If his car is running a safe IPW NA, then there is absolutely ZERO need to swap them out, unless you think running a larger injector is like adding stickers to a ricer!
Elite, your correct in that stock (or any) Injector can only support XXX amount of power, but you also have to realize the injector is not supplying the fuel for the additional power made on a WET shot, the WET fuel jet and nozzle is. So, it effectively take the Injector out of the equation unless the injector is running over 100%DC NA well before its peak RPM.
Other info posted is good info, race gas, tuning, etc.
Charlie
Elite, your correct in that stock (or any) Injector can only support XXX amount of power, but you also have to realize the injector is not supplying the fuel for the additional power made on a WET shot, the WET fuel jet and nozzle is. So, it effectively take the Injector out of the equation unless the injector is running over 100%DC NA well before its peak RPM.
Other info posted is good info, race gas, tuning, etc.
Charlie
12-29-2005, 09:58 AM
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I'm cam only and NA I'll be making right around 400whp.
That being said, I'll be spraying a 200 wet shot as well. I'll be upgrading to a Racetronix fuel pump and using the stock injectors.
Get dynotuned, and if your tuner says you need injectors, then upgrade. They can identify what % duty cycle your injectors are working at and make knowledgeable recommendations from there. I'm betting your stockers will be just fine.
That being said, I'll be spraying a 200 wet shot as well. I'll be upgrading to a Racetronix fuel pump and using the stock injectors.
Get dynotuned, and if your tuner says you need injectors, then upgrade. They can identify what % duty cycle your injectors are working at and make knowledgeable recommendations from there. I'm betting your stockers will be just fine.
12-29-2005, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by NOSjohn
That seems to be the unknown - whether he is stock or has mods.
12-29-2005, 01:17 PM
#12
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ok sorry guys I was out for awhile but I have bolt ons and a tr 230 cam on it and its tuned making 413rwhp and made 506rwhp on a 100 shot, ive sparyed 150 shot couple of times already, now Im ready spray 200 I know I need to upgrade my fuel pump but do I also need to upgrade my injectors. I just wana be on the safe side i know some guys are spraying 200 on a stock fuel system but I think thats pushing it a little.
Last edited by THIRD-GEN92; 12-29-2005 at 02:23 PM.
12-29-2005, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by THIRD-GEN92
ok sorry guys I was out for awhile but I have bolt ons and a tr 230 cam on it and its tuned making 413rwhp and made 506rwhp on a 100 shot, ive sparyed 150 shot couple of times already, now Im ready spray 200 I know I need to upgrade my fuel pump but do I also need to upgrade my injectors. I just wana be on the safe side i know some guys are spraying 200 on a stock fuel system but I think thats pushing it a little.
Stepping up to a 200 from a 100 will not affect your injectors at all. Since you're using a wet system, the extra fuel needed is supplied through your nitrous kit's fuel side.
You will need to upgrade your fuel pump.
You shouldn't be anywhere near 100% duty cycle on your stock injectors. Using your stock injectors won't be "pushing it" at all.
12-29-2005, 03:31 PM
#14
You guys DO realize a wet system can still run lean? If you don't think so, then you haven't been around enough systems and you're kidding yourself. A proper tune is
always necessary along with checking your plugs and/or the A/F ratio or wideband
results, if you have access to such an item. Many factors play part in how that motor
runs, including: air temp., elevation, car weight, cubic inches, type of induction, etc.
If I'm not mistaken he will have factory 28lb./hr. injectors in his car. I think 30 lbs/hr injectors are only rated at ~385 hp. I think he's mighty close to that duty cycle limit.
I would rather him be safe...then sorry.
always necessary along with checking your plugs and/or the A/F ratio or wideband
results, if you have access to such an item. Many factors play part in how that motor
runs, including: air temp., elevation, car weight, cubic inches, type of induction, etc.
If I'm not mistaken he will have factory 28lb./hr. injectors in his car. I think 30 lbs/hr injectors are only rated at ~385 hp. I think he's mighty close to that duty cycle limit.
I would rather him be safe...then sorry.
12-29-2005, 03:42 PM
#15
Originally Posted by NOSjohn
You guys DO realize a wet system can still run lean? If you don't think so, then you haven't been around enough systems and you're kidding yourself. A proper tune is
always necessary along with checking your plugs and/or the A/F ratio or wideband
results, if you have access to such an item. Many factors play part in how that motor
runs, including: air temp., elevation, car weight, cubic inches, type of induction, etc.
If I'm not mistaken he will have factory 28lb./hr. injectors in his car. I think 30 lbs/hr injectors are only rated at ~385 hp. I think he's mighty close to that duty cycle limit.
I would rather him be safe...then sorry.
always necessary along with checking your plugs and/or the A/F ratio or wideband
results, if you have access to such an item. Many factors play part in how that motor
runs, including: air temp., elevation, car weight, cubic inches, type of induction, etc.
If I'm not mistaken he will have factory 28lb./hr. injectors in his car. I think 30 lbs/hr injectors are only rated at ~385 hp. I think he's mighty close to that duty cycle limit.
I would rather him be safe...then sorry.
Robert
12-29-2005, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NOSjohn
You guys DO realize a wet system can still run lean? If you don't think so, then you haven't been around enough systems and you're kidding yourself. A proper tune is
always necessary along with checking your plugs and/or the A/F ratio or wideband
results, if you have access to such an item. Many factors play part in how that motor
runs, including: air temp., elevation, car weight, cubic inches, type of induction, etc.
If I'm not mistaken he will have factory 28lb./hr. injectors in his car. I think 30 lbs/hr injectors are only rated at ~385 hp. I think he's mighty close to that duty cycle limit.
I would rather him be safe...then sorry.
always necessary along with checking your plugs and/or the A/F ratio or wideband
results, if you have access to such an item. Many factors play part in how that motor
runs, including: air temp., elevation, car weight, cubic inches, type of induction, etc.
If I'm not mistaken he will have factory 28lb./hr. injectors in his car. I think 30 lbs/hr injectors are only rated at ~385 hp. I think he's mighty close to that duty cycle limit.
I would rather him be safe...then sorry.
On a wet kit if you run lean just up the fuel jet size...Its that simple. I do agree that a wet kit CAN run lean especially a 200 shot. Again I wouldnt even attempt it without a wideband. For 200 bucks its cheap insurance. At the very least monitor the stock O2's very closely while spraying....Monitoring the stock O2s may not prevent you from melting a piston with a 200 shot because the tune at that size shot is so critical....However you would be able to see a fuel noid failure immediately...
Last edited by cantdrv65; 12-29-2005 at 03:52 PM.
12-29-2005, 04:33 PM
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I dont see anywhere in here where anyone was disagreeing on the proper tune topic. Hell I support it, I may not do it myself, but thats only on my car and I never remotely imply to anyone not to check their tuning.
On injectors, for a quarter mile car, 100% IDC means ****. You can go WELL over 100% and be fine, if the tune is good and all systems do not fail. What I mean is, I had the 26# Inj, I logged last year or so, and at 4700rpms I was at 100%IDC. I spun the engine to the old 6900rpms, its not getting any less IDC at the higher rpm. I did this multiple times. The recommended 80%IDC rule is there because it reduces the chance of a static injector locking up, heating the fuel etc. But by no means does it mean that you have to swap injectors cuz your at 100%. If the car will only that high rpm for 1320' runs, and its only at the top of the rpm band, then I consider it "safe" for all intensive purposes. You can argue about it all you want, but I have done my research on this and it gets old trying to change ppl's ways of looking at the 1/2 full (or empty) glass. In racing there isn't a whole lot thats safe, so take it as you want.
Endstate, by all means, get the car tuned. See where your at with your IDC, and at what rpm/load is it that. On a non-loading dyno if your at 100% at 6000rpms, that should put you around 4600rpms on the street or loaded, or somewhere close to there. So be careful on the dyno info. Try to gather all the pertinent information also. We, all of here, can guess and swag all day long, w/o all the data its just what we have done, seen, heard of, etc that makes us reply in the ways we do.
Charlie
On injectors, for a quarter mile car, 100% IDC means ****. You can go WELL over 100% and be fine, if the tune is good and all systems do not fail. What I mean is, I had the 26# Inj, I logged last year or so, and at 4700rpms I was at 100%IDC. I spun the engine to the old 6900rpms, its not getting any less IDC at the higher rpm. I did this multiple times. The recommended 80%IDC rule is there because it reduces the chance of a static injector locking up, heating the fuel etc. But by no means does it mean that you have to swap injectors cuz your at 100%. If the car will only that high rpm for 1320' runs, and its only at the top of the rpm band, then I consider it "safe" for all intensive purposes. You can argue about it all you want, but I have done my research on this and it gets old trying to change ppl's ways of looking at the 1/2 full (or empty) glass. In racing there isn't a whole lot thats safe, so take it as you want.
Endstate, by all means, get the car tuned. See where your at with your IDC, and at what rpm/load is it that. On a non-loading dyno if your at 100% at 6000rpms, that should put you around 4600rpms on the street or loaded, or somewhere close to there. So be careful on the dyno info. Try to gather all the pertinent information also. We, all of here, can guess and swag all day long, w/o all the data its just what we have done, seen, heard of, etc that makes us reply in the ways we do.
Charlie
12-29-2005, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT3
I dont see anywhere in here where anyone was disagreeing on the proper tune topic. Hell I support it, I may not do it myself, but thats only on my car and I never remotely imply to anyone not to check their tuning.
On injectors, for a quarter mile car, 100% IDC means ****. You can go WELL over 100% and be fine, if the tune is good and all systems do not fail. What I mean is, I had the 26# Inj, I logged last year or so, and at 4700rpms I was at 100%IDC. I spun the engine to the old 6900rpms, its not getting any less IDC at the higher rpm. I did this multiple times. The recommended 80%IDC rule is there because it reduces the chance of a static injector locking up, heating the fuel etc. But by no means does it mean that you have to swap injectors cuz your at 100%. If the car will only that high rpm for 1320' runs, and its only at the top of the rpm band, then I consider it "safe" for all intensive purposes. You can argue about it all you want, but I have done my research on this and it gets old trying to change ppl's ways of looking at the 1/2 full (or empty) glass. In racing there isn't a whole lot thats safe, so take it as you want.
Endstate, by all means, get the car tuned. See where your at with your IDC, and at what rpm/load is it that. On a non-loading dyno if your at 100% at 6000rpms, that should put you around 4600rpms on the street or loaded, or somewhere close to there. So be careful on the dyno info. Try to gather all the pertinent information also. We, all of here, can guess and swag all day long, w/o all the data its just what we have done, seen, heard of, etc that makes us reply in the ways we do.
Charlie
On injectors, for a quarter mile car, 100% IDC means ****. You can go WELL over 100% and be fine, if the tune is good and all systems do not fail. What I mean is, I had the 26# Inj, I logged last year or so, and at 4700rpms I was at 100%IDC. I spun the engine to the old 6900rpms, its not getting any less IDC at the higher rpm. I did this multiple times. The recommended 80%IDC rule is there because it reduces the chance of a static injector locking up, heating the fuel etc. But by no means does it mean that you have to swap injectors cuz your at 100%. If the car will only that high rpm for 1320' runs, and its only at the top of the rpm band, then I consider it "safe" for all intensive purposes. You can argue about it all you want, but I have done my research on this and it gets old trying to change ppl's ways of looking at the 1/2 full (or empty) glass. In racing there isn't a whole lot thats safe, so take it as you want.
Endstate, by all means, get the car tuned. See where your at with your IDC, and at what rpm/load is it that. On a non-loading dyno if your at 100% at 6000rpms, that should put you around 4600rpms on the street or loaded, or somewhere close to there. So be careful on the dyno info. Try to gather all the pertinent information also. We, all of here, can guess and swag all day long, w/o all the data its just what we have done, seen, heard of, etc that makes us reply in the ways we do.
Charlie
12-29-2005, 05:50 PM
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I have measured mine well above 100%, cant recall the actual % so wont quote it. I have also logged several times, and compared the IPW vs. RPM to find IDC and shown well over 100%. Static doesnt equal locked (not saying thats what you implied), its just the point where the injector cant effectively control the flow due to being open all the time. I have never had one "lock" but I dont want to either. I ran the stock 26#s, then swapped to stock 28's, then to stock Vipers (Bosch 34#) and now stock Lightning (FMS 42's). When I was all wet, stuck with the stockers, since converting to dry gotta go bigger.
12-29-2005, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT3
I have measured mine well above 100%, cant recall the actual % so wont quote it. I have also logged several times, and compared the IPW vs. RPM to find IDC and shown well over 100%. Static doesnt equal locked (not saying thats what you implied), its just the point where the injector cant effectively control the flow due to being open all the time. I have never had one "lock" but I dont want to either. I ran the stock 26#s, then swapped to stock 28's, then to stock Vipers (Bosch 34#) and now stock Lightning (FMS 42's). When I was all wet, stuck with the stockers, since converting to dry gotta go bigger.
Of course I could be way off base also, basing that on the fact Ive had 5 Shiner Bocks this evening.
