BadAssFast

iTrader: (2)

Okay Robert gave me the idea for this. In another post, i'll paraphrase, Robert suggests keeping relays for a heater circuit in the engine compartment. The circuit has to be wired with longer 12 voly accessory wires. I have tried to figure out the downside of this...i'm still thinking.

I Pmed Robert and we agree that fusing is very important. So...how well are you protected? I'm not talking .45 ACP or Trojans...talking fuses...talking do you know where to fuse...how much to fuse. Do you know the limits of your relays? switches. I see wiring run all over the place just about everyday...many people have 20 feet of 4 g wire from the batteries to a load without a fuses holder. As well, are your firewall holes gromited? I figure you will see this in the Car Stereo or electrical section...but we use a lot of accessories with N20...openers, warmers, window switches, solenoids, programmers etc. You get the idea...show pictures, diagrams, ask questions...
- Macon

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

Macon...are you asking...or are you about to tell us, lol. You have experiance in wiring? I have some....but I dont follow protocal as much as I should. I do actually do wiring on aircraft from time to time....so i do have references on wire size and standard practices. But I dont do it enough to know everything off the top of my head.

I agree...there are way too many installs on cars without even a consideration of safety. And man....if youve even seen a battery cable ground out with no fusing or no where to go...it aint pretty. Even smaller wires can start a fire.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

I wish I could make up a fancy wiring diagram like Ricky does. actually I have it in pencil right now. My wiring consistes of these items and is a complicated nightmare:
6-solenoids
7-Relays
5-Toggle switches
3-window switches
6-indicator lights
1-Fuel Press Gauge
1-N2o Press Gauge
1-Wide Band
1-Laptop
1-WOT micro sw
1-1st gear lockout micro sw
1-bottle heater
1-Purge
1-Remote opener
3-stages wired to run together or independent
1-FPSS
I am sure there is something I am forgeting... I'll try to post up the basic system without the acc, it's a nightmare on elm street, but pretty trick how I figured out how to make stges work togehter or seperate, but Ricky did help me with a great idea of using dual relays for two stages in one. Oh ye I am likely adding a direct port as my new 3rd stage with 4 noids and a progressive, oh boy more fun.
Robert

95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

Funny you guys should post this up now as I am in the process of making nice Visio diagrams of not only the electrical circuits, but also physical layout drawings of cable runs, line runs, etc...

Talk about a major PITA, but well worth it in the end...

For example, I made source lists of power distributions, grounds, fusing, 6 relays, 5 circuit breakers, 9 switches, 13 LEDs total, 2 warning systems, hidden switchable options, etc...

It seems as if the nitrous system is the most complex thing to go into the car, and that is without saying that my audio setup has fiber-optic, outboard processors, passive line-level crossovers, 4 amplifiers and 11 speakers...

So yeah, I can see how wiring can get way out of hand, and there is plenty to take into consideration...

I am looking for some feedback on the following...

For the fusing I am using the following for the power side fusing/circuit breakers:

- 80-amp circuit breaker on the main power feed to the nitrous system fuseblock (new add-on)
- 30 amp circuit breakers for each nitrous stage (2 breakers)
- 25 amp circuit breaker for pinch and purge solenoids (1 breaker for both)
- 7.5 amp fuse for Maximizer II power, relay power and wideband power
- 20 amp circuit breaker on the bottle warmer
- 5 amp fuse on the remote bottle opener

I also have figured out a way to wire up not only the Status LED option for the MAX 2 along with the Automatic Purge, but also a way to wire up the remote bottle opener as well (so all 3 working at once)... As well as specific stuff to allow for the pinch solenoid to operate not only under actual system activation, but also under purge, both tied to a positive timing retard feedback that will only allow solenoid activation if timing is being retarded, or if a commanded purge event is requested, all without extra relays and circuitry complications...

After engineering this nitrous setup, and only with the level of safety and precaution I am building in, it scares the bejesus out of me that so many people just slap some noids on, jam a nozzle in the intake, wire up a switch, drop a bottle in back and hook it all up to the battery and nearest ground and that is it... There is just SOOO much that can go wrong and the results are just sickening to think about if it does...

95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

One other thing I wanted to mention is that I have a 2-gauge power cable on a 140-amp circuit breaker run from the front of the car to the back of the car for power distribution for the amplifiers/stereo stuff, as well as my large external fuel pump and other power needs at the back of the car. That is where I plan to hookup the remote bottle warmer and remote bottle opner with teh relays and fusing back there. All items hooked up to the rear power distribution also each have thier own fusing, but the 140-amp breaker up front is to protect the large cable itself from shorting and causing a fire... It also works great as a system shut-off point as well...

BadAssFast

iTrader: (2)

Just opening a topic for discussion...we can make suggestions as we go?

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion the relays can be put anywhere in the vehicle, but the engine comparment works the best when I am setting up a harness for a car. Your main or large power wires will remain the same length you are just moving the controll within that wire.
Low amp controll wires to a switch panel can all go thru 1 breaker, and then each controll lead could have a fuse but I think that is over kill. You want to keep the connection point to a min. in a wireing set up, this will keep the chances of failure down.
Now the fuses and or circuit breakers to be effective must be as close to the power source as possible. In this picture you see the power wires going to a circuit breaker are only a few inches long. This will yeild the most and best protection. I like reset style breakers over fuses. Costs a little more but has more life than a fuse. Manual reset are a must those automatic jobbies are a waste. IF you pop a breaker you need to find out why.

Ricky

BadAssFast

iTrader: (2)

I noticed the COVERS protecting the breakers...when I installed my Racetronix Fuel Pump I noticed the very nice weatherproof mil-spec relay that came with it. A relay under the hood would be better off if protected from the elements. I'd consider a socket/relay setup with hard wired leads soldered and covered with heat shrink under the hood.

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Those Covers stop you from arcking across them while working on them.. The weather proof relays are nice, waiting for my shipment ot come in. . Anyway Weather or metric pack everything.
Ricky

95 TA - The Beast

iTrader: (2)

As a side note on the relays, just look at the GM fuseboxes inside the engine compartment, there is no weatherpak anything about those, they are basically just spade lugs snapped into a large plastic compartment... The key in those cases is the full top cover, so I would imagine that the relay harnesses that just about any supplier uses with good Bosch or Potters&Brumsfeld relays would be more than adequate for engine compartment use... I also prefer using those harnesses over the sometimes needed individual female spade lugs that must be used in a pinch when a harness isn't available... In those cases I personally will only use the fully cased spade lug females, and will usually go back and replace them with a proper harness if I have the chance...

I just wish someone made a small form-factor non-self-resetting circuit breaker that had an electrical indicator output so you could wire up a visual diagnostic center to determine if one of them has tripped... I believe Buss-Lite makes a fuse panel that does just that, and has an idicator that you can run into teh car to light up when any of the fuses or circuit breakers trip... Kinda expensive if I remember correctly, also can only be had through suppliers, which makes retail sourcing for hobbyists a headache... But a cool product nontheless...

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

There are atc fuses out there that has an light that glows if the fuse blows.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

That's exactly the way I do mine, except, because I am cheap skate and get inline spade type fuses free at work, I use them in place of circuit breakers. I like all items in one place, and agree that you need to fuse/circuit break close to your 12v source. Nice job Ricky, one of yours I assume?
Robert

BadAssFast

iTrader: (2)

AAMP or Stinger has breakers like the SCB150...it has an indicator tab.

IE the **** poor cheap relay sockets that come in our cars. I don't think that everthing GM does is the way we should do it. Sounds odd to say that but i'll stand by it. Check the relays in a Mercedes, BMW or Lexus. Hey we can do better is my point.

Auto resetting breakers are bad from the pov that they usually pop when there is a dead short that needs to be located and repaired. If over current is the reason they pop you probably need a larger capacity breaker.

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

I have found breakers that fit the ATC sockets, and are manualy reset type.. Nice pieces,
Ricky

Frost

iTrader: (45)

DIY, .... The voltage across a closed switch is 0. Just use a resistor and LED, when the breaker opens, the potential difference lights the LED, showing it's open state. I capped this bit from EWB for ya. Of course, base your R value on the current needs of your LED, I just stuck that in. It should yield about 28mA with the car running.