calling all tuners something is wrong i need help!!!!!!!!!!!
07-04-2012, 11:08 PM
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calling all tuners something is wrong i need help!!!!!!!!!!! im new to the site and let me say that this ls1tech is awesome
thanks for all the great info and opinions
but i have a problem with my car.......... or my 1st tuner that is . i recently did some upgrades to my engine that now it needs to be tuned so i made an appointment at a local performance and tuner shop.
support local businiss yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i did this cause i wanted it to be personal and i wanted to watch and be a part of my car screaming on the dyno in front of me and being tuned instead of just a mailorder witch may have been the way i shoulda went haha (nothing against mail order or diy handhelds) but what are ya gonna do. and i normally let no no no no nobody work on my stuff so anyway to make a long horrible story short of the worst service i ever got, my car is messed up and all i got outta the deal was a higher idle. and an empty wallet .
so here is the problem at an rpm of lets say 1800-2200 at an engine cruise loaded or not. also can make it do it in the shop bay, it throws a maf performance code and doubles the fuel trim. ohh its a maf tune by the way so its in open loop. also it will throw a map performance code at lower rpms lets say 900 to 1300 under a slow incline of the throttle by hand never had any issues stock tune and when motor was stock then too, only till the tuner loaded what ever he loaded on the ecu. he claims my ecu is faulty he said if it was his car he would replace it. but that's shooting from the hip could barley answer any questions i had i can duplicate this problem with my scanner genisis evo with 4 channel scope i am no dumb dumb i can use the scanner and scope but then again, that's a stock car and tune and i know what it should be doing from the factory but i am not a tuner as well so its a grey area for me. so i scanned it i recorded freeze frame and when the problem occurs the maf and map stay nice and steady but my injectors double pulse width and my o2 sensors go from lean to full rich oviusly because of the pulse width problem. now i have searched for a long time finding info on this site and found similar problems when others on this site replaced a ton of stuff .........even the ecu......... and it didnt fix anything but the threads never got to the solution
he pretty much gave up and said it cant be tuned and 'that hes not a mechanic' haha and pushed my out the door pretty much saying it was the car . seems extremely lazy the whole service that was provided that day but we wont go there cause i could write a book about it, so back to the problem have you seen this before???? from what i read its in the tune is that correct???? help would be awesome i cant drive it i dont want to damage it. heads ms4 lt kn intake ls6 intake nothing crazy lol i heard ms4 is a hard one to tune but this guy says it was a cake walk witch lead me to believe he is full of **** cause i read that even the pros say its not easy to tune but a good tuner that knows what there doing can do it. so what do you think guys???????????????? if you need any more info please ask i will answer and keep posted with updates and a fix so maybe in the future this thread can help others have some bad *** ls cars
thanks for all the great info and opinions
but i have a problem with my car.......... or my 1st tuner that is . i recently did some upgrades to my engine that now it needs to be tuned so i made an appointment at a local performance and tuner shop.
support local businiss yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i did this cause i wanted it to be personal and i wanted to watch and be a part of my car screaming on the dyno in front of me and being tuned instead of just a mailorder witch may have been the way i shoulda went haha (nothing against mail order or diy handhelds) but what are ya gonna do. and i normally let no no no no nobody work on my stuff so anyway to make a long horrible story short of the worst service i ever got, my car is messed up and all i got outta the deal was a higher idle. and an empty wallet .
so here is the problem at an rpm of lets say 1800-2200 at an engine cruise loaded or not. also can make it do it in the shop bay, it throws a maf performance code and doubles the fuel trim. ohh its a maf tune by the way so its in open loop. also it will throw a map performance code at lower rpms lets say 900 to 1300 under a slow incline of the throttle by hand never had any issues stock tune and when motor was stock then too, only till the tuner loaded what ever he loaded on the ecu. he claims my ecu is faulty he said if it was his car he would replace it. but that's shooting from the hip could barley answer any questions i had i can duplicate this problem with my scanner genisis evo with 4 channel scope i am no dumb dumb i can use the scanner and scope but then again, that's a stock car and tune and i know what it should be doing from the factory but i am not a tuner as well so its a grey area for me. so i scanned it i recorded freeze frame and when the problem occurs the maf and map stay nice and steady but my injectors double pulse width and my o2 sensors go from lean to full rich oviusly because of the pulse width problem. now i have searched for a long time finding info on this site and found similar problems when others on this site replaced a ton of stuff .........even the ecu......... and it didnt fix anything but the threads never got to the solution
he pretty much gave up and said it cant be tuned and 'that hes not a mechanic' haha and pushed my out the door pretty much saying it was the car . seems extremely lazy the whole service that was provided that day but we wont go there cause i could write a book about it, so back to the problem have you seen this before???? from what i read its in the tune is that correct???? help would be awesome i cant drive it i dont want to damage it. heads ms4 lt kn intake ls6 intake nothing crazy lol i heard ms4 is a hard one to tune but this guy says it was a cake walk witch lead me to believe he is full of **** cause i read that even the pros say its not easy to tune but a good tuner that knows what there doing can do it. so what do you think guys???????????????? if you need any more info please ask i will answer and keep posted with updates and a fix so maybe in the future this thread can help others have some bad *** ls cars
07-05-2012, 06:57 AM
#3
What sort of help are you asking for?
Do you have a tuning setup? If so, post the tune here so we can look at it. If not, take it back to him and have the factory tune reloaded. Then go find a credible tuner to work with.
Do you have a tuning setup? If so, post the tune here so we can look at it. If not, take it back to him and have the factory tune reloaded. Then go find a credible tuner to work with.
07-05-2012, 07:15 AM
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really i just want to know if its the tune thats the problem . all i can give you is some freeze frame pictures from my scanner and what that shows like i described is pretty much nothing but a double in pulse width and a steady map and maf readings when the problem occurs. its in the tune i know it is just wanted you guys to chime in if u agree i was provided with no data and no info of what the tuner did to my car and no log of it either it was back yard stuff if you ask me really disappointed in the service
07-05-2012, 07:50 AM
#5
I have tuned several cammed cars including MS4. Not a problem.
A MS4 cam is not as hard as they say, just a little more time but it's a very good cam.
You need to send your PCM to a good tuner to have it loaded with a good mail order tune, there are good tuners here who do mail order tuning.
If the service is as shitty as you describe, don't take your car to that place again. I would ask my money back if I were you.
A MS4 cam is not as hard as they say, just a little more time but it's a very good cam.
You need to send your PCM to a good tuner to have it loaded with a good mail order tune, there are good tuners here who do mail order tuning.
If the service is as shitty as you describe, don't take your car to that place again. I would ask my money back if I were you.
07-05-2012, 08:31 AM
#6
he pretty much gave up and said it cant be tuned and 'that hes not a mechanic' haha and pushed my out the door pretty much saying it was the car
Go to a real tuner, not this local performance shop BS and your car will run just fine. This guy has no idea what he's doing and basically blamed the car for his laziness or lack of knowledge.
07-05-2012, 08:38 AM
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exactly a good tuner can tune the cam this is music to my ears please please keep posting what you think. all the feedback is great and much appreciated the owner was very nice and i was excited to bring my car there but it just so happens that he was sick that day and it was the the 3rd so im sure it was a free for all for his employees before the holiday im gonna go there today and chat with him. but i agree they wont get the pleasure of working on my ride anymore and i have about a hand full of referals that wanted to go there after i was tuned but i dont think that will be happening now lol its too damn bad really still bums me out
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07-05-2012, 10:30 AM
#8
exactly a good tuner can tune the cam this is music to my ears please please keep posting what you think. all the feedback is great and much appreciated the owner was very nice and i was excited to bring my car there but it just so happens that he was sick that day and it was the the 3rd so im sure it was a free for all for his employees before the holiday im gonna go there today and chat with him. but i agree they wont get the pleasure of working on my ride anymore and i have about a hand full of referals that wanted to go there after i was tuned but i dont think that will be happening now lol its too damn bad really still bums me out
I just noticed you are in Michigan. What area do you live in? Honestly, Livernois Motorsports in Dearborn is about the only place I would take my car to around here to get it tuned.
What is the name of the shop you went to?
07-05-2012, 11:15 AM
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ive heard great things about livernois. it was vector a friend refered me there said they did great for him but that was back when a tuner by the name of kurt was there it recently sold to another owner and a new tuner. apparently kurt cannot be found anywere because there are alot of people looking for him cause of his great work. like i said the owner paul was very nice on the phone when i scheduled my tune. so hopefully he does good buisness when i want my money refunded and we can part ways like this never happened. i dont want to talk trash at every car show because of his tuners ignorance. but as an update i hjust got back from there to speak with the owner and he was out for the rest of the week so i left a message with his secretary to have him give me a buzz. so i hope he does just want to sit down and chat with him about what happened.
07-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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If you want, I can read the tune they put in the car (if they didn't lock it) and give you my $0.02. I'm out in Howell...
On a side note - I'd highly recommend you get a WBO2 for your car no matter who you go with. It's something I consider to be just as important as a tach, oil pressure, or fuel pressure guage in a modified car.
On a side note - I'd highly recommend you get a WBO2 for your car no matter who you go with. It's something I consider to be just as important as a tach, oil pressure, or fuel pressure guage in a modified car.
07-05-2012, 03:29 PM
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that is very generous of you to read the tune. do you have a shop? can you tune? dyno? also the only problem i see is getting it out to howell its barly drivable and the tuner said at the very least i will need to change the plugs when i get it back to my shop witch is 4 miles away thats a good indication of a tune huh lol . i towed it there to be extra careful to not damage or wash out the engine??? can u read just an ecu if i pulled it and drove out with it in my daily driver ranger
07-05-2012, 06:12 PM
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I don't have a physical shop. I have limited access to one with a dyno though. I've tuned my last 4 f-bodies and all of my friends' cars. It's amazing what you learn messing with this stuff over the last 9 years or so. I probably could tune yours without any major issue. But, my WBO2 is in my car up in Lansing and I would need to get some more credits for my software to do it. That's why I offered to read the tune for you (reading is free). Based on what I saw, I'm confident I could fix a lot of the issues you're seeing from the tune (assuming that there aren't mechanical issues with the car). At the very least, I can tell you/show you why it's acting up.
Another friend of mine asked me to take a look at his C5. If I get some time to grab the WBO2, maybe I can make it out your way so you don't have to go too far. My weekend is up in the air at the moment. Shoot me a PM with your number and maybe we can chat some more....
Another friend of mine asked me to take a look at his C5. If I get some time to grab the WBO2, maybe I can make it out your way so you don't have to go too far. My weekend is up in the air at the moment. Shoot me a PM with your number and maybe we can chat some more....
07-09-2012, 07:06 PM
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thank you for the offer but for now i talked to the owner. they are convinced it is a ecu problem. so he offered to order one try it and if it dont fix the problems no charge to me so ill give them another chance ill keep you guys posted on the results of the situation. and thank you again for all the helpfull advise
07-09-2012, 07:10 PM
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one thing i did notice was that when the problem happens 1 freeze frame to the next the timing goes from 36 to 30. maf coolent map volts tps rpm intake air temp all that good stuff stays the same, but 02 go rich, and pulse width doubles from 2.96 to 5.29
07-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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ok so im no tuner, but ive been doing alot of reading on how this whole thing works so what ive figured outby accedent is that the car is running in cell 21 by accedent. witch from what i have read is the deceleration cell. this should not be happening correct??? i dont have tuning software i have a genysis evo 4.0 and record freeze frame data before after and during the problem
and also when it throws the maf performance code would it then resort back to an sd reading off of the map,
its then making the fuel trim go out of wack due to its no longer a ve tune cause of the maf code. and that would be because the map table is not adjusted according to the large cam and fluctuations of the map at lower engine speeds????
does anyone have a link that will explain the basic operations of the ecm and how and why it selects a certain cell?? and as a tuner you set what cell and when it goes there by the parameters being met for that particular cell ????
and also when it throws the maf performance code would it then resort back to an sd reading off of the map,
its then making the fuel trim go out of wack due to its no longer a ve tune cause of the maf code. and that would be because the map table is not adjusted according to the large cam and fluctuations of the map at lower engine speeds????
does anyone have a link that will explain the basic operations of the ecm and how and why it selects a certain cell?? and as a tuner you set what cell and when it goes there by the parameters being met for that particular cell ????
07-10-2012, 04:17 PM
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new update i test drove it today and no matter what speed or what rpm or load the car stays in cell 21 with an occasional switch to 20 for a few seconds
no takers????????????
no takers????????????
07-10-2012, 05:02 PM
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I dont know **** about tuning. But .. It would seem that the vss would be what tells the pcm the car is decelerating , therefore it would then switch to that table i suppose. Like i said i dont know about tuning ... but its a logical answer .. I would think if the car is always in a decel mode that maybe the vss is picking up noise off the wiring and thinks the car is moving or slowing down. Im sure there are other triggers that play into going into that cell .... Map , Tps . You know its stuck in that cell .. figure out why . Whats it look like at idle .. All those pics have you at 1600-1700 rpm. Good luck.