idle

iTrader: (5)

Should I learn to tune my own car or should I pay to have it tuned?

I don't really enjoy paying someone to work on my car when I can do it myself; I enjoy learning but at the same time I don't want to waste my time and never get the car working right and be out of both time and money.

What are you opinions? The modifications are in my sig, and my local tuner is charging $500 for a dyno tune.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

If you have a lot of time to learn, go ahead.

idle

iTrader: (5)

Fair enough.

I do have the time, I would prefer to learn in any situation. I assume though, that tuning yourself is plausible. I'm essentially an average mechanic on vehicles (I've done all the mods myself).

nj02z

iTrader: (6)

I had bad experiences will two (highly recommended) reputable tuners. First tuner could not get the car running right and the second tuner had the car running good but left me with a lot of quirks (wrong gear ratio in tune, converter would not stay locked up, going into limp mode about once every 6 or 8 passes, startup issues) you get the point.
I ended it buying Hp Tuners and although it may have taken me a bit I figured out all of the of the little problems which were all tune related. Learn to do it yourself, you will not regret it.

idle

iTrader: (5)

Thank you for the help so far guys.

If I'm correct, the steps for tuning are: buy necessary tools (software and connection cables), connect to computer, and then begin tuning by doing test runs on the road.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

You also must have a wideband o2 sensor and controller for it.

I have been down all 3 roads. I got a mail order tune (for a cammed bolt on ls1 in my swapped Chevelle). I later got a dyno tune from a shop in OKC. Even before the dyno tune I had stumbled across a steal of a deal on EFI Live so I bought it. So finally I have been learning to tune myself with great results.

IMO: everyone who is serious about modding these cars would do well to own some form of tuning software. If nothing else it opens up the ability to get help through email tunes or being able to post logs and tunes for others to help diagnose problems. It's also very easy to account for shift point changes, gear changes, rev limits, etc. The cost is somewhat steep but it will eventually pay for itself.

In regards to actual tuning, read read read read read. I've learned there are usually a few ways to do things. Learn the ups and downs of them and see which you prefer. Tuning is not simple and cut/dry. The more I think I've learned the more I learn I don't know.

I am deeply grateful for the support from people like joecar at EFI Live and the tuners here on LS1tech who will help people like me. Sometimes the responses in threads in this section are not overly friendly and I'm sure newb questions can be frustrating so you have to take it with a grain of salt and absorb what you can anyway. I would rather have any help at all than none. You also can't expect tuners to want to give away their hard earned knowledge for free so appreciate the guidance they do offer.

I find myself often getting in a rush to resolve problems or tweak things on my tunes and make mistakes...luckily none of them costly so far. I am trying to work on my own patience and eventually would really like to attend Geoff's tuning classes at EPS.

It is an invaluable bit of knowledge to have and you can probably do it, but it's not something you can expect to just jump into and get right the first time. Your best bet is to try talking with some people who might be willing to work with you on a base tune if you buy the software then learn from there. Doing a full tune on a car with your mods will be daunting for a beginner IMO, but not nearly as bad as it would if the car was an automatic.

idle

iTrader: (5)

Thank you for the response. Yes, I have a wideband. I recently installed Fuel Pressure & AEM Wideband (analog for both). Should I consider digital?

I see how most people's insights to tuning are:
"helped me fix my current tune"
"allowed me to adjust for additional mods"

But then some folks are saying that I'll break something or ruin something. I'm not really seeing how that's possible unless I really decide to be stupid and destroy a file.

gagliano7

Copy your stock tune.Have someone tune your car and see the changes they made so you can learn. Then you will be able to fine tune from there and when you change things down the road you can make your own changes. It takes alot of reading and time to learn but you will be happy evey time you need to change things you won't have to bring it somewhere.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

If you take your time, pay attention, and don't do anything irrational or severe you don't have much chance of destroying anything.

Do things in a gradual manner and use common sense. Yesterday I ran an auto VE tune and had made a mistake so the numbers came out to be about double what I'm used to seeing in parts of the map...common sense told me not to load that into a tune and try to drive with it like that. I double checked my work and found my mistake and started over.

high impact

iTrader: (5)

It's a HUGE learning curve but worth it in the long run.

idle

iTrader: (5)

Again, thank you guys. I really do appreciate the advice. I had these same questions when trying to decide if I should install the heads/cam/headers/intake/motor mounts myself or not. I guess I may have a small advantage in being an EE major.

From what I understand, my car will atleast run or in the least, die at idle and I'll have to restart it. So, when tuning, do you just 'adjust' the current (stock) tune from there?

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Idle, sorry to jump on your thread a bit but I was JUST having the same thought.

So which setup is best for beginners? HP Tuners seems to be more affordable to get started but uses the credits. Is a credit burned each time I upload a tune? If so, it seems like the EFI Live licensing model *might* be better for the DIY that would be dealing with the same VIN all the time. I have IT background and a shop full of techies and programmers so might be interested in any solutions that can be built at home if they don't come with too much pain. What do you think and what do you use?

Thank you for your advice.

spy2520

iTrader: (3)

If you know anybody locally who tunes or uses the software, get that one. Otherwise there is enough info on this forum and each respective platform's forum that you can't go wrong with either one.

I got efilive.

idle

iTrader: (5)

I plan on going with HP Tuners since a buddy of mine has used it before and currently tunes WRX's/STi's with it. From what I've read, each car uses 2 credits and they're good for the life of the car/pcm.

high impact

iTrader: (5)

The amount of credits used on HP Tuners depends on the type of tune but once a vin is purchased for a particular tune it's good to go for any number of updated tunes. We download tunes constantly as we are adjusting, especially at the track. For a standard MAF tune it's 2 credits. My son and I are currently on 2 bar SD tunes and that required another 2 credits per car. We are both going to 3 bar SD soon and will require another credit purchase.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

I think I am going with HP Tuners just based on price. I know guys who use both but will likely see me buying my own as $$$ not in their pocket so going there for advice may be a bit sketchy. The "pro" seems like a no-brainer for an additional $150. Any other thoughts on that? What's the most inexpensive but reliable option for wide-band O2 that will work with that setup?

Thanks again for helping me find a new way to lighten my wallet.

idle

iTrader: (5)

What is 2-Bar & 3-Bar tuning?

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Finally! Something I know a _little_ about.

A "bar" is a unit of atmospheric pressure(think barometric pressure). 1 bar is atmospheric pressure at sea level(about 14.5psi?) so 2 bar is pretty good boost(around 14.5psi above atmospheric). If someone is tapping out a 3 bar sensor, shake their hand and don't accept the race..that's like almost 30lbs boost! Or I might be a little off and the 2-bar is 1 bar above atmospheric(so 14.5lbs boost) but you still get the idea.

Speed-density is a method of running a motor based on other sensors and "known" values(cyl volume, RPM, MAP/vacuum, etc.) but without the mass air meter(or the restriction that comes with it).

AFAIK it eliminates the BS that you have to go through getting a mass-air meter to work right with upper boost levels in forced-induction setups. SD setups have to be re-tuned for most any change that affects airflow or fuel in or our of the engine, but the guys that are going to this will do that anyway so it is not really a drawback. In mass air setups, additional flow is in theory picked up by the meter and the computer has algorithms by which to change fuel to match. At power and boost levels where we would be envious, the mass air meter is really just a PITA.

Pre-1988 Mustang 5.0s were SD and if you wanted to change anything significant, a chip was required. They were faster but 89-later(88 in California I think) added the mass air meter which allowed a lot more modifications without having to tune or trick the computer. Still, custom tuners were able to tweak more power from there, but at least you could put a reasonable cam in and still drive to work on Monday.

So I apologize if you knew all of that already, but 2-bar or 3-bar tuning would be tuning based on a 2- or 3-bar pressure sensor I think.

I'm about to order my setup and getting a bit giddy so please forgive my wordiness.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

If you are a serial modder then you really want to have
the ability to follow that up as required. Maybe you want
to think about the future, what you plan to do and how
much you would spend hiring a retune after each major
step.

But I found just the basics of maintenance and drivability
made the investment worth it to me (even including the
dumb investment in a handheld, before I knew better).
Two converters, a gears change, H/C/I later, I'm way
ahead on price and hassle I do believe.

Somebody who plans to get it all done and then never
mess with, might be better off skipping the learning
and the investment, and just rent the brain.

But you cannot affort the shop rates to fully bed
in the drivability across the entire envelope, too much
detail fiddling and cool down / warm up / mixed driving
time @ $/hr. If this is a priority for you then there's
really only one way to get there that makes sense.
But you need to hold up your end, along with shelling
out for the gear.

And people do break stuff, do stupid things, believe
bad advice. Same as any other aspect of wrenching
up, only more abstract and invisible. Respect the
power and its consequences, is all.

Sarg

iTrader: (6)

I would honestly look at eventual goals and if you see lots of boost or power adders consider a stand alone.