Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

Ok my buddy has a 3rd gen with a th400 manual valvebody. he wants to basically fab up his own connectors and make some kind of a crank position sensor so that he could possibly run the ls1 pcm. he and i both realize this cant just be plugged in and expected to work. hes one of the best mechanics i know and this was his idea so im researching it for him. with hp tuners he will beable to change any/all variables he needs to including the firing order. any input from anyone? perhaps an idea on the crank position sensor that could be put on a SBC that can again be modified to "work" with a custom ls1 pcm? i remember for the fast system once in GMHTP they had some msd crank position or trigger setup...well any ideas/input would be appreciated.

thanks!

wait4me

iTrader: (10)

needs a cam sensor input also...

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

Yes it will work fine. He could even save a lot of work by running a non-cc distributor in his SBC. Interfacing the actual ignition signal to the PCM input would be the only tricky thing about the whole deal.
The PCM will run without the tranny inputs, and without the MAF or O2's if you want it to.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

do you think the TPS and everyting would be read the same by the pcm and what not? do you think the knock sensors could be fed into the pcm too? hes ok with not using them, but why not use em if possible.

also, any thoughts on going to coil over? white, i thought (which means nothing, my buddy is the brains not me) we might beable to use the distirbutor to send the signal back to the pcm as the "cam position sensor" then get a set of ls1 coil packs and run them, because that is half the point of putting the computer in the car if you ask me. can you elaborate your idea so i can understand better?

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

Yes the TPS is the same. You'd have to run the PCM specific type of knock sensors, but they can be disabled in the code.

If he wants the factory coil-per-cylinder setup, then he should just adapt the factory cam sensor to work on the SBC. Yes, using the distributor to simulate the cam trigger is doable with some creative modification... either way.

I wasn't clear on why he wanted to run the newer PCM in the first place. My choice would be an older TPI/ECM system that is simpler and uses free software to tune with. Electromotive sells parts to convert to coil-per-cylinder type ignition if that was the main reason for the conversion.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

main reason was being able to tune with a laptop and scan with one too. he bought a dfi system but its sucks compared to whats available for the ls1 and the newer versions are far far more expensive.

what free software is there to tune the computer? can you provide me with some links and or some files to try out? thanks again!

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

If he thinks DFI sucks, then he needs to stay far away from the newer LS1 code. I'm not kidding.

The 3rdgen TPI code is simple and a pleasure to work with, plus a lot of the software is free, and there's a huge in-depth knowledge base out there.
Go to the DIY-PROM section of the "thirdgen.org" website and start reading.
TunerPro and CATS are both tuning software and you can get for free.
The hardware to scan & tune is around $300 depending on what options. They have real-time tuning capability as well as the normal chip burning.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

he thinks that the accel dfi sucks, and i agree, its dos based and slow, the scanner is no where near as fast as the ls1. i will research on thirdgen.org. i apprecaite it!

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

real time tuning capability, im not seeing it, i at the DIY section of the prom, and every part seems to include pulling the chip out of the pcm. thats why he wanted the ls1 pcm to bypass all that crap. what am i missing? thanks!

monodax

(RT TunerCat) is what you need to look for.

-=Jeff=-

If the Main reason for the Swap is to run Coil Per plug, why not use the OEM ECm in the 3rd Gen, get a MSD Crank trigger, MSD Cam Sync/ Oil pump drive (distributor Plug) and a F.A.S.T eDIST to run the Coil packs. I am going to implement this on my 89/91 Vette ( 89 vette, 91 electronics)

I will use the Crank Trigger to satisfy the ECM for a Dist Ref. then the Cam sync to the eDIST, the EST line form the ECM also to the eDIST and the eDIST will sort out which coil to fire.

do a search on the DIY-PROM board at thirdgen.org If you search for my name -=Jeff=- there wil be a couple topics about this..

I will not be doing anything until later int he year as I need to aquire more parts for it and I do want to drive the car this summer.

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

the main purpose is not to run coil overs, although its a nice byproduct. it was to get real time scanning and programing abilities without paying 2g for the FAST system. simply put, i have an extra pcm and the hpt cable. done, free for him, as opposed to buying an entire system. i will research what you guys have shown me, thanks!

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

ok i found it. now i was looking at hardware....is this what i need?

http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=54
and..
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=56


thoes will allow the thrid gen pcm to work like an ls1 pcm? meaning i can do realtime programing and scanning from my laptop without removing the chip each time?

thanks again guys!

robertbartsch

I beleive the firing order of the Gen 3 engines is differnt from the other small block engines. Consequently, you can't use a LS1 pcm for another engine; right?

Camaro_Zach

iTrader: (19)

there is a paramater in the ls1 pcm for firing order however i dont know that anyone has tried it. but it is there.

-=Jeff=-

Yes, Moates Stuff is what you can use, Along with either Tunercat or Tunerpro.

As for the Gen3 firing order, All that would need to be done is have the coils re wired to the GEN 1 firing order, otherwise it should work in theory

wait4me

iTrader: (10)

that firing order thing is only for missfire detection i beleive...