JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Thread is here

Logs are here

Thanks!

God Forgives I Dont

holly moses! First off let me ask you this, in that directory there is a Bin file is that your current tune? If so then that is messed up in a bunch of places. Even though your obtaining close to good AFR you tune is very wrong. The VE, MAF, Spark tables are very wild bouncing all over the place. Some of the transmition settings are crazy as hell too. But there again I'm no expert so what do I know.......

Another_User

Are Grot Headers longtubes? If so, I doubt there is any help for you...

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

GFID: Thanks for the expert opinion... I think?

- The VE isn't perfectly smooth but I've had too many problems with smoothing throwing the results out of whack. It's not bouncing. The ridge at MAP15 is due to DFCO.
- The MAF was tweaked based upon Dynamic Airflow vs. MAF Hz. It's not perfectly smooth, but it's not bouncing.
- The spark tables need the most work as I've basically done nothing except remove KR, and put in a WOT timing in the neccessary cells which worked good on another tune.

Transmission settings crazy as hell? Elaborate. There are hardly any settings for a manual tranny.

Anyone else?

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Yes they are Grotyohann longtube headers. What do you mean?

Another_User

Longtubes are hard to tune for in closed loop because the O2s don't stay as hot. But it looks like you have more serious issues. My eyes are still bleeding from looking at your tune. Before you go too far I suggest you re-tune using the tuning 101 docs, and other things on this website.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

I've seen that response a number of times. How about being specific and sharing your knowledge? Looks like... sounds like you're guessing

All that Tuning 101 document is is a poorly organized collaboration of information swept into a single pile. Information I've posted was captured in that file. So if it's wrong, it'd better be taken out.

- The LTIT & STIT's were calculated with Black02SS's spreadsheet
- The VE was tuned with an onboard wideband & HPT 1.6 in SD mode
- The PExRPM was set at Desired AFR since (at one point) the LTFT's were around zero
- I accept that the timing isn't smooth (and may be fubar), and that the LTFT's are positive. However, proper timing is not necessarily max timing and there hasn't been any documentation on how to properly set timing on the street.

Here's a question. The common consensus is to keep the LTFT's from going positive so that it doesn't throw off your AFR at WOT. If the AFR @ WOT is in the desirable range already, is the only side effect fuel economy? Granted the LTFT's can change throwing off the AFR, but even if they're locking at 0 during WOT and for whatever reason it goes lean, you'll be in the same boat.

Comparing my tune to your .BIN posted on Horist's site, this is what I find:

- Different speed limiter
- Different tire height/gear ratio
- Different fan settings (mine come on about 5-10* before yours)
- A/C WOT enable/disable slightly different
- Many of the A4 tranny tables are different, although we both have M6's
- M6 CAGS coolant temp is higher in yours
- My MAF sensor fail frequency is higher
- My low RPM misfire table is set to all 32000, whereas yours is all 32767
- My Idle (moving) Misfire table is set to all 32000, yours is not
- My P102=1/On, yours =2/Off
- My P107=1, yours =0
- My P108=1, yours =0
- My P117=1, yours =0
- My P118=1, yours =0
- My P122=1, yours =0
- My P123=1, yours =0
- My P131=1, yours =0
- My P132=1, yours =0
- My P134=1, yours =0
- My P137=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P138=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P140=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P141=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P151=1, yours =0
- My P152=1, yours =0
- My P154=1, yours =0
- My P157=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P158=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P160=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P161=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P162=3, yours =1 (I don't have rear O2's)
- My P230=1, yours =0
- My P300=1, yours =0 (I like to see when I have misfires)
- My P335=1, yours =0
- My P336=1, yours =0
- My P351=1, yours =0
- My P352=1, yours =0
- My P353=1, yours =0
- My P354=1, yours =0
- My P355=1, yours =0
- My P356=1, yours =0
- My P357=1, yours =0
- My P358=1, yours =0
- My P401=1, yours =0 (All of my EGR codes disabled)
- My P404=1, yours =0 (All of my EGR codes disabled)
- Target idle speed vs. ECT is a bit different below 133*
- I have a typo in the -40 cell of my Idle vs. ECT vs. Gear table, but otherwise they're generally close
- My Throttle follower tables are stock; 3/4 of yours are not
- IAC Park Position vs. ECT is different
- MAF airflow is different but very similiar values to yours
- Your Secondary VE table is smoother but mine's far from horrible. I filled my histogram cells all the way to 6400 in every gear possible.
- Primary VE: See secondary above
- My RPM limits are 500RPM higher than yours because of my forged bottom end
- My DFCO is enabled (-22*), yours is disabled (258*)
- My OLFA vs. ECT vs. MAP is leaner above 140*; 80-100kPa
- My mid & high LTFT RPM boundaries are higher than yours
- My LTFT MAP boundaries are +/- 5 from yours
- My PE Enable Hot/Cold is set to lower TPS positions
- Your PExRPM is a static 12.72 2400+, mine is a bit lower below torque peak, then rises to 13:1 at power peak
- Your ECT Correction Add spark table is different presumably for the 160 stat (thanks for replying to my PM's on this topic, by the way)
- Your EGR timing table is zeroed. I could have sworn I zeroed this out. Too many bins laying around.
- All four main timing tables are different. As soon as I see a proper method to set them (other than: give it as much as she'll take w/o KR) I'll work on all of these.
- My knock learn RPM is 500RPM higher
- My Knock Fast Recovery rate is a static 0.020 across the board, yours is not
- Your Max Spark retard limit is completely the opposite of mine (I think mine is stock)
- Your Knock Sensor Global Gain vs. MAP vs. Cyl shows 4* everywhere, where mine is 1* at 65kPa+
- Your Max Torque is 640, mine is 639
- My AC Compressor Torque vs. AC Pressure is all zeros, whereas yours is not.
- My abuse mode RPM is set to 7200, whereas yours is 6900

So, short of the timing needing work, what are the major problems which caused you to remove your eyes with a spoon?

By the way, I'm running the Bosch 13111's, which reportedly use a 65W heating element. Which is a popular method to try to keep the front O2's active.

Another_User

That BIN is old. Check this one out. Included is a list of all changes.
http://users.adelphia.net/~someoneelse/29MAR05.zip
Most of the changes are explained a little in the document. If those are the real tables you worked out, you need to smooth them. Take a look at mine. You should not have all those "jumpy" parts because it will affect how your car runs. Any changes you noted that are not listed in my list are because I have an M6 (AC compressor torque, etc.) Take a look at that stuff and let me know what questions you have.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

1) I'd like to know how you determined the ECT timing changes for the 160* thermostat.
2) OLFA vs. ECT vs. MAP: These values need to be lower than what's in the PExRPM table at the same RPM, correct?
3) How did you decide which knock tables to alter, and how did you decide on the values/cells you chose?
4) Which procedure(s) did you follow to populate your timing tables?
5) Which symptoms were you trying to address by modifying the Idle Spark Overspeed & Proportional Idle Airflow?
6) Oh, why did you alter the AC Compressor Torque table?

Thank you!

Another_User

1) I'd like to know how you determined the ECT timing changes for the 160* thermostat.

I just logged my ECT, and determined what the lowest ECT was that I would see while the car was cruising, and then removed any rows that would have subtracted timing during normal operation. Then I smoothed the bottom of the "block" of timing reducting that was intruding into my normal operating temps with what used to be the bottom. I shifted it up.

2) OLFA vs. ECT vs. MAP: These values need to be lower than what's in the PExRPM table at the same RPM, correct?

I have never heard that. I don't see any reason to change those tables. Changing your VE table directly affects OLFAvsECTvsMAP, and so do your LTFTs retained in your PCM. Your PE vs RPM is totally different. Now if you are in open loop and you go into PE, if I am not mistaken your PCM will use whichever of the values is richest. This should not be a big deal, because you shouldn't be running WOT much except when your engine has warmed up and gone into closed loop anyways. The only time it could give you trouble is if you were running an open loop only tune. Your PE vs. RPM should be tuned when your engine is warmed up (and in closed loop) using a wideband AF meter. Or your could always shoot for 890mv on your O2 sensors, but that does not guarantee the right AF ratio, and you have to make sure you do not get detonation.

3) How did you decide which knock tables to alter, and how did you decide on the values/cells you chose?

I logged where I was getting false knock (98s are known for it), and I noticed that my false knock occurred right where the Knock Sensor Global Gain switched to all 1s. I tried a few other values, but I ended up using all 4s, and it eliminated all false knock. But I am also careful to make sure I don't test the limits of my AF ratio and timing advance, just in case. From what I have seen so far though, everything is working properly.

4) Which procedure(s) did you follow to populate your timing tables?

I have done a few things to my timing tables:
1) spliced in higher low rpm values from other year tables (if it's safe for them, it is safe for me...same engine), this helps keep your car from stalling out because the timing is too low in those areas with a cam. I smoothed the advance to 28 across the WOT areas, this is a pretty well accepted WOT value, without going crazy and risking detonation. I may tinker with it some on the dyno. There are a few areas where I was getting real KR ...more later

5) Which symptoms were you trying to address by modifying the Idle Spark Overspeed & Proportional Idle Airflow?
6) Oh, why did you alter the AC Compressor Torque table?

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Jimmyblue has some input on this:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...highlight=OLFA

Another_User

That makes sense. I have never leaned my mixture out enough to be lower than the OL AF. If I did I would get detonation for sure.

I have reduced a few areas on my timing table due to real KR, mostly around .32 g/cyl near 1600 rpms.

5) Which symptoms were you trying to address by modifying the Idle Spark Overspeed & Proportional Idle Airflow?

At closed throttle on decel the stock tables can pull timing (usually in a rediculously jagged manner) from up to like 1000 rpms over your idle speed. It caused jerking and bucking on decel. If you look at later year models this was corrected, and the limits match the ones I use now.

6) Oh, why did you alter the AC Compressor Torque table?

That one I did not touch. It is either a difference between A4 and M6 tunes, or a difference in the OS.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Must be the OS then. I have an M6 also. I'm pretty happy with my idle and part throttle right now. I'll play with your values and see how it reacts.

I don't understand what caused the LTFT's to go lean from the last SD tune I performed. I guess it's back to SD tuning to get it fixed. I really hope this isn't a recurring issue

Would there be anything in the tune which would cause me to hear audible ping, but not have it recorded in a log? P0300 is enabled.

Any idea why it's cycling between FTC 22 & 15 at 100%TPS in the logs?

Another_User

Those logs are a little short. Do you have something from a longer drive that I can take a look at?

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

Sorry, nothing else longer on this tune at this time. How long of a scan would you need? Same PID's?

Another_User

Can you do all the default ones for 15 minutes or so? I just want to get a better idea what is going on. I will look at the other logs again later too.