question about how to tune car once its on the dyno....
01-17-2006, 06:18 PM
#1
question about how to tune car once its on the dyno.... i just put qtp headers on my car and i was wondering how its tuned once its on the dyno, do i get a fuel pressure regulator? or does the dyno have the abilty to change fuel settings through the computer in the car? also after the headers does the car run rich or lean? i heard it runs rich, which goes back to my first question abotu how to change that
01-17-2006, 06:25 PM
#2
TECH Senior Member
you need tuning software to tune the car on the dyno...
Unless it's a mustang dyno or a dynojet w/the clutch pack (or whatever it's called) you can't really do non WOT tuning very well... and realistically for what you pay for dyno time... it is probably better to do non WOT on the street (assuming you have the time and places you can go)... a street tune will generally be more accurate (unless the dyno tune is by someone who really knows what they're doing) since it puts the car under real life loads and factors in the extra load caused by wind resistance and such...
as for WOT on the dyno... you can adjust your WOT fueling tables w/the tuning software on the dyno... but for the best tune it's a good idea to have the part throttle dialed in first then dial in WOT
Unless it's a mustang dyno or a dynojet w/the clutch pack (or whatever it's called) you can't really do non WOT tuning very well... and realistically for what you pay for dyno time... it is probably better to do non WOT on the street (assuming you have the time and places you can go)... a street tune will generally be more accurate (unless the dyno tune is by someone who really knows what they're doing) since it puts the car under real life loads and factors in the extra load caused by wind resistance and such...
as for WOT on the dyno... you can adjust your WOT fueling tables w/the tuning software on the dyno... but for the best tune it's a good idea to have the part throttle dialed in first then dial in WOT
01-17-2006, 07:13 PM
#4
Originally Posted by 2002/Black/SS
uumm i dont think i fully understand what that means, so the best idea is to go WOT(wide open throttle right?) in the street? how far and how fast? also, ur saying unless the dyno can create load for the wheels it wont do anything?
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01-17-2006, 10:03 PM
#8
Originally Posted by 2002/Black/SS
im having a shop dyno it, but the shop normally works on 4 cylinder cars
I would never have a shop work on my car that normally doesnt deal with a specific motor/pcm. Do they even have the tuning software to tune your car? If not and even if so I'd probably find a different place.
01-18-2006, 12:37 AM
#9
Originally Posted by foff667
uh boy I would never have a shop work on my car that normally doesnt deal with a specific motor/pcm. Do they even have the tuning software to tune your car? If not and even if so I'd probably find a different place.
I would never have a shop work on my car that normally doesnt deal with a specific motor/pcm. Do they even have the tuning software to tune your car? If not and even if so I'd probably find a different place.
Check for sponsors in the Florida area that do tuning. They will be able to take care of you.
01-18-2006, 11:02 AM
#10
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For a header change you could get by without reprogramming the computer. Eventually the computer will relearn it's fueling based on O2 feedback, at least for the part throttle operation.
Question for others: how does the O2 feedback affect WOT operation if at all? Is that open loop so it's ignored?
Or you can take the easy route and tune via a MAF translator. This is a device hooked in to the signal coming from your MAF that can be used to 'recalibrate' the MAF signal to the computer. It can be used to tweak the A/F ratio and would probably be sufficient for what you are doing.
To do this, you simply dyno with a wide-band O2 sensor temporarily installed and being monitored by the dyno computer.
To do the real reprogramming (which may not be worth the $ for just a header change), you need a shop that has the right software to reprogram your car's computer. It doesn't sound like the shop in question has that expertise.
Question for others: how does the O2 feedback affect WOT operation if at all? Is that open loop so it's ignored?
Or you can take the easy route and tune via a MAF translator. This is a device hooked in to the signal coming from your MAF that can be used to 'recalibrate' the MAF signal to the computer. It can be used to tweak the A/F ratio and would probably be sufficient for what you are doing.
To do this, you simply dyno with a wide-band O2 sensor temporarily installed and being monitored by the dyno computer.
To do the real reprogramming (which may not be worth the $ for just a header change), you need a shop that has the right software to reprogram your car's computer. It doesn't sound like the shop in question has that expertise.
01-18-2006, 11:10 AM
#11
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by jyeager
Question for others: how does the O2 feedback affect WOT operation if at all? Is that open loop so it's ignored?
Or you can take the easy route and tune via a MAF translator. This is a device hooked in to the signal coming from your MAF that can be used to 'recalibrate' the MAF signal to the computer. It can be used to tweak the A/F ratio and would probably be sufficient for what you are doing.
To do this, you simply dyno with a wide-band O2 sensor temporarily installed and being monitored by the dyno computer.
To do the real reprogramming (which may not be worth the $ for just a header change), you need a shop that has the right software to reprogram your car's computer. It doesn't sound like the shop in question has that expertise.
Or you can take the easy route and tune via a MAF translator. This is a device hooked in to the signal coming from your MAF that can be used to 'recalibrate' the MAF signal to the computer. It can be used to tweak the A/F ratio and would probably be sufficient for what you are doing.
To do this, you simply dyno with a wide-band O2 sensor temporarily installed and being monitored by the dyno computer.
To do the real reprogramming (which may not be worth the $ for just a header change), you need a shop that has the right software to reprogram your car's computer. It doesn't sound like the shop in question has that expertise.
WOT doesn't rely on the O2s... if your LTRIMs are crazy for party throttle it will under some conditions add additional fuel... but it's static, not dynamic
MAF Translater is junk... it's a temporary fix/bandaid... that is if you get version 300000000 (sarcasm... they've had so many fixes and updates it's ridiculous), but if you're pushing any decent power it should be avoided
for just a header change... you're likely ok w/out tuning... however for max power a tune should be done (some cars can see 20+hp increase with tuning, others may only see a few hp with tuning)
And I concur w/what the others have said... if this shop has no experience tuning an LS1 then I wouldn't let them touch it...
01-18-2006, 11:22 AM
#12
Originally Posted by 2002/Black/SS
so what exactly, step by step, should i do to my car now that it has headers to tune it
01-18-2006, 11:45 AM
#13
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Originally Posted by jyeager
For a header change you could get by without reprogramming the computer. Eventually the computer will relearn it's fueling based on O2 feedback, at least for the part throttle operation.
Question for others: how does the O2 feedback affect WOT operation if at all? Is that open loop so it's ignored?
Or you can take the easy route and tune via a MAF translator. This is a device hooked in to the signal coming from your MAF that can be used to 'recalibrate' the MAF signal to the computer. It can be used to tweak the A/F ratio and would probably be sufficient for what you are doing.
To do this, you simply dyno with a wide-band O2 sensor temporarily installed and being monitored by the dyno computer.
To do the real reprogramming (which may not be worth the $ for just a header change), you need a shop that has the right software to reprogram your car's computer. It doesn't sound like the shop in question has that expertise.
Question for others: how does the O2 feedback affect WOT operation if at all? Is that open loop so it's ignored?
Or you can take the easy route and tune via a MAF translator. This is a device hooked in to the signal coming from your MAF that can be used to 'recalibrate' the MAF signal to the computer. It can be used to tweak the A/F ratio and would probably be sufficient for what you are doing.
To do this, you simply dyno with a wide-band O2 sensor temporarily installed and being monitored by the dyno computer.
To do the real reprogramming (which may not be worth the $ for just a header change), you need a shop that has the right software to reprogram your car's computer. It doesn't sound like the shop in question has that expertise.
codes and maybe fall into open loop at random times
(or full time) if the O2s have problems (many do).
Even if not, they can be "bent" by the cold and you
get -bad- trimming, the opposite of what you want.
Headers improve the scavenging and filling, which in
turn changes the tolerable spark advance before you
start to ping. The stock tune is so conservative that
you may get by here. Or not. All balled up with any
fuel trimming effects. You'd really like the fueling to
be stable (trimming / O2s) and adjusted (stock tune
is over-rich, eliminate COT if you're cat-less.as well)
and then you find out what spark advance makes
best safe, no-ping power. Coolant temp control also
has a hand in this, need fan settings made proper
for power (rather than economy / laziness).
There are some guys around mid/south Florida with
your model/year of HPTuners (going by the handle).
Can't speak for them, I'm a bit north to be handy
and don't have a lot of free time for playing lately
(two years into a six-month project, with all of
the "management support" that would imply).
DiabloSport in Delray has a dyno and a really good
LS1 knowledge base. Lots of folks will drive over to
Tampa and Revtreme, or Norris up in Orlando. But
those are all pros and you'd be paing the doctor bill,
when maybe you just want a band-aid and a cough
drop (for now).
01-18-2006, 12:19 PM
#14
Tuning If Headders is the only part that has been added, then unless you want max power you could possibly get by without a tune, But again there is power to be had even in stock trim. Yes every car is different, I have seen cars go from 1 full point to the lean and as much as 1 full point to the rich just with the addition of headders, Then I have seen no change in the A/F at all. If you are planning to add other components in the near future you might want to wait on the dyno tuning and find someone in your area that can basically perform a street tune. But again I have tuned "BONE STOCK" LS1's and gained up to 17 RWHP on a A4 and 30 RWHP on a Z06, so again if you want max power for your setup then go get Dynoed..