Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

As the title asks, Why does LS2 Support cost 333% more than LS1 Support?

I know you guys put a lot of hard work into developing the LS2 software and I thank you personally for doing it, but I'm going to guess that half the design work was already done since you had the perfect LS1 support over the past 2 years.


This is my biggest gripe about the new price structure and puts a huge dent in my future tuning plans as well as others.

Even if the LS2/LS7 support was only 2 credits more than the LS1 and non LSx support, I and most others would accept that arms wide open over the new current price structure.

I just thought of something, does this have something to do with the new HP Tuners and Superchips Partnership?

AdamSS

iTrader: (3)

LS1 = past
Ls2 = future

horist

Plus I'm guessing the fact that there are only 1 year of LS2 based motors right now (other than the 06 GTO) supported... that's not very many vehicles.... it took them alot of time/effort to crack the LS2 code and make a tuner for it (ontop of designing the hardware to interface with it) .... and as the old saying goes... time is money... I'm sure if there were 7 years of LS2 based vehicles on the road right now then the price would be more inline w/the LS1 based vehicles ... but fact is there's only 2 years out right now and each year uses different hardware/code


That's just how it usually goes... remember back in 98/99 when a set of ported LS1 heads was well over 3,000 bux? why? because there were only a few years of cars that could even use it.... then as more and more cars were made that could use those heads, the prices were reduced

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

With all that said, then in a year or 2, the price should drop by a huge amount for LS2/LS7 support?

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Like horist said, with higher production comes lower cost. Any short run production will have inflated rates. The same holds true for software. Plus the ls2 in new technology and again as mentioned above it had to be reverse engineered.

Its only 2x the cost of the ls1 stuff if you buy licenses individually. Its still a pretty generous deal considering without any additional money you could tune 2 ls2 cars, or one ls2 car and 2 ls1 cars, or 4 ls1 cars, or unlimited 2002 ls1 cars and upgrade two with the 1bar SD. They offer a lot of options.

It is more expensive if you want to tune unlimited ls2's ill give you that, but if you dont think youll make your money back, then stick with the single license at a time, and just factor in the 200 dollar license into what you charge for a tune. If youre operating costs go up, youll have to charge a little more. Im willing to bet that youll see ls2 tunes being a little bit more expensive than ls1 tunes, atleast in the beginning...

Super Sport X2

That would be incorrect. The LS2/7 were new controllers, new code and new com protocols to hack. Dont forget about the trans controller either.



No, it has everything to do with how many 3:00AM nights all three of us spent so people can tune a few vehicles.

You are killing me Bill

-Ken

99FormulaWs6

I've been keeping my mouth shut, sitting back reading, and while I agree with Billiumss's points, I think my biggest gripe is, if I buy a single license for LS2 support, @ 200.00, then as I tune for friends and end up buying for 5-6 more cars, I can't convert them to, a better upgrade??? I've still spent my money with you, the same amount or more. There should be some sort of future upgrade, because I can't drop a grand all at once, I end up wasting my money? What target group are you going after? To me it seems like you all are trying to take unlimited tuning out of the hands of anyone and place it with the shops that can afford to drop 1000.00 and write it off on taxes. It's your company and I'm sure that nothing anyone here says will make a difference when it comes to your business plan. But remember, when you all started this, it was an affordable tuning solution that made multiple tuning available to the masses. It's sad to see you all abandon that.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Perfectly said!

99Fbody99

The hardware development cost etc arguement does not hold water. The average Joe and upgrade to the same USB hardware for a couple of hundred bucks.
Bottom line, bare what the market can bare..plain and simple.

And, I agree with 99Formula...All the credit based mumbo jumbo should be easy to see when a unit has 20 credits on the same my/yr and automatically upgrade to the full based liscence. The same amount of $ is spent, just incrementally.




Dave

Third Gear

iTrader: (3)

I was angry when I bought mine about 15 months ago because a few weeks later they made it 2 vehicle model years for the price of one. I asked Keith about possibly giving me discount to get my second vehicle since they then came with two and he basically told me to take a long walk on a short pier. So much for loyalty. At least the program rocks.

It seems that they removed that now. However, it's still not bad deal. LS1 Edit is $450 bucks and you don't get **** with it really AND it's locked to one PCM. You and 3 of your buddies could get together and split the tune all of your cars - assuming each one has a different car and year that are Gen III based.

TimZ28

I think you raise a very valid point. If you reach 20 credits worth of individual LS2 licenses for the same model/year you should automatically be converted to the unlimited license for that model year. I think that would go a long way in removing the pain of the LS2 pricing model.

If this were to happen I would place my upgrade order immediately but until the LS2 pricing becomes more reasonable I'm going to wait and see what EFI Live offers. There are two camps here... those that gotta have it and those that want value. Right now the value side of the fence is severely lacking when you consider that EFI Live will be equal to if not better in terms of features.

Tim

Spenser309

I agree let us buy into an upgrade over time. That solves all the problems i have with the new license structure.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

We are working on a similar solution..

Single vehicle licenses will most likely not apply to year/model upgrades..

year/model upgrades will however apply to unlimited group upgrades.

The specifics are still being worked out.

The reason the single vehicle licenses will most likely not apply is because if you ARE doing single/vehicle licenses.. you chose that method because you probably don't tune alot of that specific year/model vehicle type. You would have no reason to purchase the year/model up front anyway, nor would you have the reason to upgrade to it at a later date.

However, if you purchase a year/model license, you obviously are tuning a handful of those types of cars.. it's probable that you would be doing the same with other year/models as well. Eventually you'll have so many year/model's you'll want to upgrade. At that point some type of credit system for your previous year/model purchases toward the unlimited vehicle group would be nice.

We now offer two types of licensing schemes..

the year/model license we offered before called "vehicle types", and a new single vehicle license.

You need to determine what license scheme is right for you.

The single vehicle license will obviously be what is right for most people, as most people only tune their own cars.

Again, no specifics in regards to applying existing credits toward any types of upgrades have been finalized.. I am simply stating this to let you know we are considering it and do want to make it easy for the guy who chose the year/model route to upgrade to the unlimited vehicle group packages.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Or even if it automatically upgraded at 8 for the ls1 and 24 for the ls2, then atleast theres price incentive to buy the unlimited license up front. Would be very cool of them, but you cant expect them make a business model change like this just canse a few of us are whining. I think weve all been spoiled by their good customer service in the past and now we take it for granted. By comparison who else can touch their pricing? If you think another option is a better deal, go for it. When youre talking about multiple unlimited years for ls2 cars, the investment in the interface itself is nil, so theres nothing tying your hands. I just dont think the other options will match this pricing.

TimZ28

EFI Live... HP Tuners has killed their value proposition for me. If you need it now there is value. If you want the best I honestly can't say EFI Live won't be a better value or atleast equal. I've owned product from both companies and I know HP Tuners is not untouchable from a product/feature/quality point of view.

Tim

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Perhaps not from a product/feature/quality point of view, but what about price?

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

What about it. Single vehicles are 99.00 just like HPT and the vehicles are licensed the same. EFILive doesnt care if its a car or a truck/diesel, year or model you license it for 99.00 and with EFILive you get CustomOs for free and its unlimited (eg 1 bar/2-3 bar, Switchable diesel tunes ect) ....

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

for $499 with our product..

You get the ability to tune up to 4 ls1 vehicles if you like. Thats twice as much as the competition.

You also get the ability to tune your vehicle AND convert it to 2 or 3bar if you like. You have to spend more to be able to do that with the competition.

If you want the wide band capabilities, you can purchase that for $649, tune your car and still convert it to 2 or 3 bar if you like.. and still have credits left over to spend.

Not only that.. but now you have the hardware that will support LS1, LS2, LS7, Ford and Dodge... another thing the competition does not offer.

It's now even cheaper to get into our product and convert your vehicle to a 2 or 3bar application.

horist

Reopening... this is an HPT thread ... in case anyone forgets the rules see the stickies... I'm not going to babysit this... it starts to go south again and it gets locked again (this applies to those, whom know who they are, that consistently cause HPT threads to go south and get locked)

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

I didn't see the other posts. Thank you for unlocking this.

Yes, please keep this a HP Tuner thread. I gotta at least try to make my point to HP Tuner that I am not the only one that thinks the 333% increase is way too much...

EFI Live, Just stay on the sidelines for now, I'm sure I will be starting a thread about EFI Live LS2 tuning soon and then you can chime in.