megasquirt and msd ignition box combined work great
02-18-2007, 09:16 PM
#1
megasquirt and msd ignition box combined work great last night we fired up our (potential) pinks car. we used the msd ignition control box and the megasquirt(ms1 ver3 board). the motor fired right up.
for anyone wanting to control an ls1 i think this is an option worth looking at. the msd box with harness was $250 on ebay. the ms with harness is $390 at diyautotune. for a total of $640 you can completely control and tune the motor.
the msd box is completely plug and play. it plugs into the stock coil packs, map, crank and cam sensors. then it has a ground and power wire and also a couple of inputs to trigger nitrous timing retard or the 2step. the timing maps are pre programed or completely programable and you can use a 1,2 or 3 bar map.
there is a tach output on the msd that hooks up to the mega tach input. land a few wires to some sensors and to the injectors and vroom. fires right up. the mega has some nice features like running low z injectors, fan control, real nice nitrous control, many other features.
the mega still needs a couple of output circuits wired into it. not sure why they haven't made that standard yet. it is about $2 worth of parts and 20 minutes of work.
for anyone wanting to control an ls1 i think this is an option worth looking at. the msd box with harness was $250 on ebay. the ms with harness is $390 at diyautotune. for a total of $640 you can completely control and tune the motor.
the msd box is completely plug and play. it plugs into the stock coil packs, map, crank and cam sensors. then it has a ground and power wire and also a couple of inputs to trigger nitrous timing retard or the 2step. the timing maps are pre programed or completely programable and you can use a 1,2 or 3 bar map.
there is a tach output on the msd that hooks up to the mega tach input. land a few wires to some sensors and to the injectors and vroom. fires right up. the mega has some nice features like running low z injectors, fan control, real nice nitrous control, many other features.
the mega still needs a couple of output circuits wired into it. not sure why they haven't made that standard yet. it is about $2 worth of parts and 20 minutes of work.
12-03-2007, 10:09 PM
#4
When you use this set up, what happens if your using HPTuners/EFI Live or the like? How does all that work together. I remember your truck having Megasquirt and also remember seeing that you used EFI Live. I would like to learn more about this set up as I am running out of room on my 60lb. injectors.
12-04-2007, 05:03 PM
#5
on a truck like yours you dont use the msd box. just the squirt. you can get the tach signal from the factory computer. let the stock computer do the timing, tranny control and prety much everything other than fuel. let the squirt do your fueling for you.
it is a dream tuning the fueling with the squirt. easy on the fly tuning. ability to run low z injectors, also added ability to run other stuff like fans and nitrous(wet or dry). if you do it this way you will still need a programer for the stock computer to do timing, shift points and other stuff like turn off codes.
i have never tuned anything like the 2 bar map set up that hp tuners has. might be a good way to go but you would still need an impedance converter to run the low z injectors.
it is a dream tuning the fueling with the squirt. easy on the fly tuning. ability to run low z injectors, also added ability to run other stuff like fans and nitrous(wet or dry). if you do it this way you will still need a programer for the stock computer to do timing, shift points and other stuff like turn off codes.
i have never tuned anything like the 2 bar map set up that hp tuners has. might be a good way to go but you would still need an impedance converter to run the low z injectors.
12-04-2007, 11:56 PM
#6
I have HPTuners now. Is the Megasquirt tuned via laptop? Also, when using the squirt do you still tune your VE table in HPTuners?
With the squirt hooked up to the truck, say you changed the PE table or any other fueling table in HPTuners, does the computer not even see those changes? What I'm asking is, how does the ecm neglect any fueling calculations that are in your existing tune?
Will I still use the scanning tool in HPTuners to scan things like STFT and LTFT?
Hope these aren't stupid questions, just trying to learn.
With the squirt hooked up to the truck, say you changed the PE table or any other fueling table in HPTuners, does the computer not even see those changes? What I'm asking is, how does the ecm neglect any fueling calculations that are in your existing tune?
Will I still use the scanning tool in HPTuners to scan things like STFT and LTFT?
Hope these aren't stupid questions, just trying to learn.
Last edited by Blown06; 12-04-2007 at 11:58 PM. Reason: more questions
12-05-2007, 04:35 PM
#7
you unhook the grounds from the stock computer to the injectors and take them to the squirt. all fuel functions are now done by the squirt. the pe, ltrims and all of that other stuff now do nothing.
to tune the fueling with the squirt you fill out a ve table. it is very easy to do. the tuning is real time. you click and it changes. there is a map. either 8x8 or 12x12 cells that has rpm on one side, manifold presure on the other. as you drive thru the rpms there is a "ball" that moves around on that chart to show you what part of it the computer is using to do your fueling. you goto that part of the chart and click it up or down to add or pull fuel. just that easy.
you can also log it and then adjust after the run. i like to get it close with real time tuning. let someone else drive it and rev it thru the rpms and diferent loads as i click away. once it is close then i make full runs and adjust afterwards.
there are lots of neat functions you can mess with. the wot stuff is easy. idle is easy. the transitions during normal driving takes a little time to get just right. warm up enrichment needs to be done when it is cold and actualy warming up.
to tune the fueling with the squirt you fill out a ve table. it is very easy to do. the tuning is real time. you click and it changes. there is a map. either 8x8 or 12x12 cells that has rpm on one side, manifold presure on the other. as you drive thru the rpms there is a "ball" that moves around on that chart to show you what part of it the computer is using to do your fueling. you goto that part of the chart and click it up or down to add or pull fuel. just that easy.
you can also log it and then adjust after the run. i like to get it close with real time tuning. let someone else drive it and rev it thru the rpms and diferent loads as i click away. once it is close then i make full runs and adjust afterwards.
there are lots of neat functions you can mess with. the wot stuff is easy. idle is easy. the transitions during normal driving takes a little time to get just right. warm up enrichment needs to be done when it is cold and actualy warming up.
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12-05-2007, 07:12 PM
#10
i dont know the number but it is the one listed for ls1's.
it is night and day easier to tune with the squirt. sometimes it is a little hard to get it to fire up but if you can borrow a tune from someone it helps. once it is running you look at the a/f gauge and adjust by clicking on the ve map.
then just sitting there you rev it up a little and adjust. then rev it higher and adjust, then higher... till you have it tuned from idle to ~6000rpm with no load.
then you put it in gear with your foot on the brake(and nothing in front of the truck) and do the same thing again but you can only go so high in the rpm range before it starts to push. it all happens really fast. you save the tune every now and then just in case you mess up so you dont have to start all over.
then hop on the street with a driver. get it into 2nd and have them give it a steady lite throttle and go up thru the rpms. follow the ball and tune it as it goes thru the ve map. if it gets too lean have them let off and add several clicks and try it again. you can get an idea of where things are going and get some clicking done between runs, err on the rich side and work the map down. have them do the same lite throttle run till you have the a/f ratio where you want it. then do the same thing but with a little more throttle, then more....
from the time we got my truck fired and idleing to wot 10+psi runs was less than an hour. messing with the acell enrichment and some other little things to get it to drive like stock took longer. like a couple more hours to get it just right.
it is night and day easier to tune with the squirt. sometimes it is a little hard to get it to fire up but if you can borrow a tune from someone it helps. once it is running you look at the a/f gauge and adjust by clicking on the ve map.
then just sitting there you rev it up a little and adjust. then rev it higher and adjust, then higher... till you have it tuned from idle to ~6000rpm with no load.
then you put it in gear with your foot on the brake(and nothing in front of the truck) and do the same thing again but you can only go so high in the rpm range before it starts to push. it all happens really fast. you save the tune every now and then just in case you mess up so you dont have to start all over.
then hop on the street with a driver. get it into 2nd and have them give it a steady lite throttle and go up thru the rpms. follow the ball and tune it as it goes thru the ve map. if it gets too lean have them let off and add several clicks and try it again. you can get an idea of where things are going and get some clicking done between runs, err on the rich side and work the map down. have them do the same lite throttle run till you have the a/f ratio where you want it. then do the same thing but with a little more throttle, then more....
from the time we got my truck fired and idleing to wot 10+psi runs was less than an hour. messing with the acell enrichment and some other little things to get it to drive like stock took longer. like a couple more hours to get it just right.
12-06-2007, 12:57 PM
#11
Thanks for all the help, I found your old write up on the installation, and did alot of reading last night. I also emailed your buddy Scott for some help too. I'm seriously thinking about going this route for two reasons. HPTuners is being very slow on creating a custom 3-bar OS for me, and I have a feeling I will be needing to go to low imp. injectors pretty soon.
btw, what is the latest on your truck and the fairmont?
btw, what is the latest on your truck and the fairmont?
12-13-2007, 11:23 AM
#13
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I also got help from Scott to get my LS1 up and running. I noticed this thread and thought I would spread the wealth. If anyone is ineterested in what it takes to run fuel and spark from the megasquirt without MSD, here is my writeup:
http://www.v8rx7forum.com/v8-rx-7-bu...tml#post411417
It is a bit tougher, you have to add a few more compnents and I also had to add some noise filtering capacitors to get everything running clean. All of that is documented.
http://www.v8rx7forum.com/v8-rx-7-bu...tml#post411417
It is a bit tougher, you have to add a few more compnents and I also had to add some noise filtering capacitors to get everything running clean. All of that is documented.
12-13-2007, 12:36 PM
#14
Parish, Ok I'm startin to get alittle confused.. So you run the msd carb box for the ls1 and tie it into the squirt... The msd will control the timing and firing while the squirt will control the air/fuel. Is this correct? Which msd box is it? The one they make for edelbrock or the one msd sales? How reliable will this be in really high hp numbers? I have 408 turbo build in progress however i was going with a carb instead of fi, putting the motor in my 97 chevy truck. I had rather go with Fi but just wanna be filled in on alittle more info... The tuning sounds pretty damn easy though
Also, lets get some pics!
Also, lets get some pics!
Last edited by Area 51 Racing; 12-13-2007 at 12:48 PM.
12-13-2007, 02:43 PM
#15
We'll I just got my 3-bar OS from HPTuners, so I think I'm going to give it a try and see how it does. From what I hear I should not have any problems. Hopefully this will satisfy me until I need Low-Z injectors.
btw, If I were to run a fuel cell set up with a big external pump and bypass starting with a static fuel pressure of around 70 psi w/reg on a 1:1 for boost, how much power could I support with the 60lb. injectors?
btw, If I were to run a fuel cell set up with a big external pump and bypass starting with a static fuel pressure of around 70 psi w/reg on a 1:1 for boost, how much power could I support with the 60lb. injectors?
12-14-2007, 05:06 PM
#16
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70 PSI static pressure plus boost? I note that you are using a 3 bar sensor which would allow boost sensing up to about 30 pounds of boost. Your regulator would increase fuel pressure up to aprox. 100 PSI at 30 PSI of boost with a static pressure of 70 PSI to start with. I would be very careful about my injector selection at this fuel pressure range. Not all injectors react the same to these high rail pressure numbers.
12-15-2007, 10:27 AM
#19
it has presets if you dont want to hook up a laptop but if you hook up a laptop you can program it anyway you like. along with a 2step, rev limit and nitrous retard. there are 2 extra inputs to handle the 2step and nitrouis retard.
