Motor build - Need road course advice
11-08-2013, 10:20 AM
#1
Motor build - Need road course advice I have posted in the NA and FI sections but I seem te get a lot of drag racers commenting and are missing the point of my question entirely. I am building a fun car that I want to be able to autox in as well, it's a 1988 bmw e30. I'm currently in the process of caging it and then I need to address the direction I want to go with the motor.
This is somewhat of a budget build if you will. Not cutting corners just newly married, started a business full time college student and full time employee kind of situation. I got a smoking deal on a lm7/4l60e setup with extremely low miles. I would like to reach 400whp in this car with a linear powerband curve, not that spikey stuff the drag guys love. So the two options for my build are as follows.
N/A Build
stock rotating assembly
.30 milled 862 heads (try to hit 10:1 CR)
1218 pac springs
lq9 cam
ported TB
custom headers
Custom tune with HPtuner
Mild Turbo build
Stock rotating assembly
stock 862 heads
1218 pac springs
lq9 cam
ported TB custom headers
custom tune with HP tuner
60mm Garrett turbo
I have almost everything I need for the turbo setup laying around besides the pac springs, that's why I'm leaning that way. What are your thoughts on the two setups?
This is somewhat of a budget build if you will. Not cutting corners just newly married, started a business full time college student and full time employee kind of situation. I got a smoking deal on a lm7/4l60e setup with extremely low miles. I would like to reach 400whp in this car with a linear powerband curve, not that spikey stuff the drag guys love. So the two options for my build are as follows.
N/A Build
stock rotating assembly
.30 milled 862 heads (try to hit 10:1 CR)
1218 pac springs
lq9 cam
ported TB
custom headers
Custom tune with HPtuner
Mild Turbo build
Stock rotating assembly
stock 862 heads
1218 pac springs
lq9 cam
ported TB custom headers
custom tune with HP tuner
60mm Garrett turbo
I have almost everything I need for the turbo setup laying around besides the pac springs, that's why I'm leaning that way. What are your thoughts on the two setups?
Last edited by Ironfreak; 11-11-2013 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Edit reason for building the car
11-08-2013, 02:01 PM
#2
Why are you building an autox/road course car with a small cube iron block and especially an automatic transmission? Both are detrimental to performance... IMO bore out the 5.3 to 3.898" (makes it a 5.7L) and throw some stock LS1 pistons or Wiseco pistons in there with stock rods, sell your 862 heads for $100 and buy some 241s in good shape for around $150 (241s have bigger valves and with the LS1 bore/piston size you should be at about 10:1 with 241s), and Katech rod bolts.
If you go with the above longblock, it'll be much more trustworthy when you go turbo. Head studs/LS9 headgaskets will also help when you go turbo, but people have probably told you that already, too. Can't comment on the springs or cam as I'm not familiar with that setup... I just know that sub-5.7L LS motors aren't known for power under the curve.
If you stay with the 4L60E you should seriously consider having it built to handle the abuse. If you're going off of dyno numbers alone for your goal, it's much harder to hit 400whp with a 4L60E vs. a T56.
What intake manifold will you be using?
The biggest weakness in shortblocks with FI builds is when stock hypereutectic pistons are used. The ringlands for the pistons are a pretty common weak point.
If you go with the above longblock, it'll be much more trustworthy when you go turbo. Head studs/LS9 headgaskets will also help when you go turbo, but people have probably told you that already, too. Can't comment on the springs or cam as I'm not familiar with that setup... I just know that sub-5.7L LS motors aren't known for power under the curve.
If you stay with the 4L60E you should seriously consider having it built to handle the abuse. If you're going off of dyno numbers alone for your goal, it's much harder to hit 400whp with a 4L60E vs. a T56.
What intake manifold will you be using?
The biggest weakness in shortblocks with FI builds is when stock hypereutectic pistons are used. The ringlands for the pistons are a pretty common weak point.
Last edited by ZexGX; 11-08-2013 at 02:18 PM.
11-08-2013, 02:36 PM
#3
Why are you building an autox/road course car with a small cube iron block and especially an automatic transmission? Both are detrimental to performance... IMO bore out the 5.3 to 3.898" (makes it a 5.7L) and throw some stock LS1 pistons or Wiseco pistons in there with stock rods, sell your 862 heads for $100 and buy some 241s in good shape for around $150 (241s have bigger valves and with the LS1 bore/piston size you should be at about 10:1 with 241s), and Katech rod bolts.
If you go with the above longblock, it'll be much more trustworthy when you go turbo. Head studs/LS9 headgaskets will also help when you go turbo, but people have probably told you that already, too. Can't comment on the springs or cam as I'm not familiar with that setup... I just know that sub-5.7L LS motors aren't known for power under the curve.
If you stay with the 4L60E you should seriously consider having it built to handle the abuse. If you're going off of dyno numbers alone for your goal, it's much harder to hit 400whp with a 4L60E vs. a T56.
What intake manifold will you be using?
The biggest weakness in shortblocks with FI builds is when stock hypereutectic pistons are used. The ringlands for the pistons are a pretty common weak point.
If you go with the above longblock, it'll be much more trustworthy when you go turbo. Head studs/LS9 headgaskets will also help when you go turbo, but people have probably told you that already, too. Can't comment on the springs or cam as I'm not familiar with that setup... I just know that sub-5.7L LS motors aren't known for power under the curve.
If you stay with the 4L60E you should seriously consider having it built to handle the abuse. If you're going off of dyno numbers alone for your goal, it's much harder to hit 400whp with a 4L60E vs. a T56.
What intake manifold will you be using?
The biggest weakness in shortblocks with FI builds is when stock hypereutectic pistons are used. The ringlands for the pistons are a pretty common weak point.
As far as intakes I have the 5.3 intake and an ls1 intake.
11-09-2013, 02:11 PM
#4
You are going backwards with an iron block and auto trans. Sell it and buy and aluminum block and a 4/5/6 speed trans.
The BMW chassis's strong point is balance, you are flushing the whole reason to use it with all the weight over the front axle.
Forget about the turbo, you don't need it for autoX or trackdays. Just more weight over the front you dont need, 380rwhp in a 2500 lb chassis is retarded fast on a track.
The BMW chassis's strong point is balance, you are flushing the whole reason to use it with all the weight over the front axle.
Forget about the turbo, you don't need it for autoX or trackdays. Just more weight over the front you dont need, 380rwhp in a 2500 lb chassis is retarded fast on a track.
11-10-2013, 01:21 PM
#5
The 4L60e is getting a transgohd2, Sonnex shift valve and a corvette servo upgrade. It's a temp trans. The cars final weight is going to be roughly 2500lbs. so I don't think the transmission is going to hurt as bad as it would in a heavier vehicle.
As far as intakes I have the 5.3 intake and an ls1 intake.
As far as intakes I have the 5.3 intake and an ls1 intake.
11-10-2013, 06:58 PM
#6
You are going backwards with an iron block and auto trans. Sell it and buy and aluminum block and a 4/5/6 speed trans.
The BMW chassis's strong point is balance, you are flushing the whole reason to use it with all the weight over the front axle.
Forget about the turbo, you don't need it for autoX or trackdays. Just more weight over the front you dont need, 380rwhp in a 2500 lb chassis is retarded fast on a track.
The BMW chassis's strong point is balance, you are flushing the whole reason to use it with all the weight over the front axle.
Forget about the turbo, you don't need it for autoX or trackdays. Just more weight over the front you dont need, 380rwhp in a 2500 lb chassis is retarded fast on a track.
11-11-2013, 12:11 AM
#7
You are going backwards with an iron block and auto trans. Sell it and buy and aluminum block and a 4/5/6 speed trans.
The BMW chassis's strong point is balance, you are flushing the whole reason to use it with all the weight over the front axle.
Forget about the turbo, you don't need it for autoX or trackdays. Just more weight over the front you dont need, 380rwhp in a 2500 lb chassis is retarded fast on a track.
The BMW chassis's strong point is balance, you are flushing the whole reason to use it with all the weight over the front axle.
Forget about the turbo, you don't need it for autoX or trackdays. Just more weight over the front you dont need, 380rwhp in a 2500 lb chassis is retarded fast on a track.
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11-11-2013, 12:09 PM
#8
I think I should have clarified my build a little better. It came off sounding like a dedicated autox track car which it's not. I apologize for that (edited first post). I highly enjoy the build process of any project, and while I want to autox with it, it won't be it's only purpose. I want to DD in the summer months, maybe try some drifting, but mainly have fun.
I get the concerns with the auto, for now it'll have to do, for what I paid for the whole package I look at it as being a free transmission, so dropping $150 in parts to beef it up is minimal to finding a manual transmission at this point. Maybe I'll make that swap next winter.
Obviously the 6-speed is one option, what other manual transmissions are guys using behind the ls motors?
Thanks for all your input guys, with your feedback and many other I think I can put something together that I'll really enjoy.
I get the concerns with the auto, for now it'll have to do, for what I paid for the whole package I look at it as being a free transmission, so dropping $150 in parts to beef it up is minimal to finding a manual transmission at this point. Maybe I'll make that swap next winter.
Obviously the 6-speed is one option, what other manual transmissions are guys using behind the ls motors?
Thanks for all your input guys, with your feedback and many other I think I can put something together that I'll really enjoy.
11-11-2013, 03:56 PM
#12
save your money and do it right.
Unless you are doing AutoX that automatic trans will suck ***. A T5 won't last very long and you will be basically throwing money away buying it, then not being able to use that clutch setup when you swap over to a T56 due to breakage.
Look for an LS1 style T56 that has been rebuilt with upgrades. Factory ones are normally on their last legs.
If you want to not have cooling issues ditch the turbo idea. Run as many cubes and highest compression that you can. A well built n/a 5.3 with milled heads and healthy cam will be a fun car.
Unless you are doing AutoX that automatic trans will suck ***. A T5 won't last very long and you will be basically throwing money away buying it, then not being able to use that clutch setup when you swap over to a T56 due to breakage.
Look for an LS1 style T56 that has been rebuilt with upgrades. Factory ones are normally on their last legs.
If you want to not have cooling issues ditch the turbo idea. Run as many cubes and highest compression that you can. A well built n/a 5.3 with milled heads and healthy cam will be a fun car.
11-11-2013, 04:10 PM
#13
save your money and do it right.
Unless you are doing AutoX that automatic trans will suck ***. A T5 won't last very long and you will be basically throwing money away buying it, then not being able to use that clutch setup when you swap over to a T56 due to breakage.
Look for an LS1 style T56 that has been rebuilt with upgrades. Factory ones are normally on their last legs.
If you want to not have cooling issues ditch the turbo idea. Run as many cubes and highest compression that you can. A well built n/a 5.3 with milled heads and healthy cam will be a fun car.
Unless you are doing AutoX that automatic trans will suck ***. A T5 won't last very long and you will be basically throwing money away buying it, then not being able to use that clutch setup when you swap over to a T56 due to breakage.
Look for an LS1 style T56 that has been rebuilt with upgrades. Factory ones are normally on their last legs.
If you want to not have cooling issues ditch the turbo idea. Run as many cubes and highest compression that you can. A well built n/a 5.3 with milled heads and healthy cam will be a fun car.
I disagree, the T5 trans is a good performer, especially in a light car. If you don't ****** and powershift a T-5 it will be fine, many that race CMC and Ai 3rd gen cars and Fox Mustangs use the T-5.
11-11-2013, 04:24 PM
#14
save your money and do it right.
Unless you are doing AutoX that automatic trans will suck ***. A T5 won't last very long and you will be basically throwing money away buying it, then not being able to use that clutch setup when you swap over to a T56 due to breakage.
Look for an LS1 style T56 that has been rebuilt with upgrades. Factory ones are normally on their last legs.
If you want to not have cooling issues ditch the turbo idea. Run as many cubes and highest compression that you can. A well built n/a 5.3 with milled heads and healthy cam will be a fun car.
Unless you are doing AutoX that automatic trans will suck ***. A T5 won't last very long and you will be basically throwing money away buying it, then not being able to use that clutch setup when you swap over to a T56 due to breakage.
Look for an LS1 style T56 that has been rebuilt with upgrades. Factory ones are normally on their last legs.
If you want to not have cooling issues ditch the turbo idea. Run as many cubes and highest compression that you can. A well built n/a 5.3 with milled heads and healthy cam will be a fun car.
I can see that. I know a guy that built a ratrod/autox car out of a 47 chevy truck. powered by a high CR. 383 stroker. runs a T-5, same one for the last 3 year with no problems. And it wasn't even WC T-5, it came out of a truck!
11-18-2013, 12:57 PM
#15
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also the 6 cyl 4th gens had 5-speeds so that is your best bet but they are hard to find
11-18-2013, 01:56 PM
#16
The bell housings to go to a ls bolt pattern are like 550$ so sure you can make a T-10 or T-5 bolt to anything if you are willing to buy the bell housing but 600$ by the time shipping is included is alot for a bell housing
also the 6 cyl 4th gens had 5-speeds so that is your best bet but they are hard to find
also the 6 cyl 4th gens had 5-speeds so that is your best bet but they are hard to find