7 quarts yielded oil in CAI! What Tstat are you guys running?
05-27-2005, 11:09 PM
#1
7 quarts yielded oil in CAI! What Tstat are you guys running? I went road racing at Thunderhill (Willows, CA) yesterday and put in 7 quarts of Redline oil in my Camaro oil pan to prevent oil pickup starvation. I have an LS1/RX-7 (FD). Well after doing a few sessions I noticed that oil had found its way down 3 feet of my cold air intake to the bottom by my brake duct! Seems like it was blowby from the vacuum hose connected to the TB.
Is 7 quarts too much? 6.5 quarts is maybe better.....
Are you guys running stock Tstats? Mine runs at 220-230* during the 20 minute session and slowly creeps up to 245* when I finally do a cool down 1/2 lap where it goes down to 205* or so and then I hammer on it again. It was 102* and 140* on the track though. I definately I need some radiator ducting as I have none. Was running distilled water and Redline Water Wetter.
I'd like some feedback on both items please.
Also when downshifting into 3rd it sometimes went in and other times took 2-3 attempts. Not good. After racing I can now hear my throwout bearing make noise. About 1,000 miles on a Ram 910 clutch/PP and Fidanza alum flywheel with 3:90's.
I was running Mich Pilot Sport Cup 285/30/18 tires on 18x10.5" CCW's with 430rwhp in a 2800lbs RX-7/T56. The car rips and for the first time at the track I was very happy. Well balanced and gobs of power. Ate Evo's and Sti's for lunch. The Lotus Elise was about the only car that posed a problem.
-Mark
Is 7 quarts too much? 6.5 quarts is maybe better.....
Are you guys running stock Tstats? Mine runs at 220-230* during the 20 minute session and slowly creeps up to 245* when I finally do a cool down 1/2 lap where it goes down to 205* or so and then I hammer on it again. It was 102* and 140* on the track though. I definately I need some radiator ducting as I have none. Was running distilled water and Redline Water Wetter.
I'd like some feedback on both items please.
Also when downshifting into 3rd it sometimes went in and other times took 2-3 attempts. Not good. After racing I can now hear my throwout bearing make noise. About 1,000 miles on a Ram 910 clutch/PP and Fidanza alum flywheel with 3:90's.
I was running Mich Pilot Sport Cup 285/30/18 tires on 18x10.5" CCW's with 430rwhp in a 2800lbs RX-7/T56. The car rips and for the first time at the track I was very happy. Well balanced and gobs of power. Ate Evo's and Sti's for lunch. The Lotus Elise was about the only car that posed a problem.
-Mark
05-28-2005, 07:59 AM
#2
7 Qts: you didn't mention anything about an oil cooler, so I'm assuming your oil capacity is stock. If thats the case, try 6 qts. That said, your oil overflow issue doesn't originate w/too much oil. You didn't say how much wear or track time is on the motor, but I'd have to suspect it is blow-by and is leaking from a breather tube. Rings probably. Try a Quart less (6 qt) and try again.
T stat: I run a 160* stat w/425 RWHP. Nevertheless, when your water temp hits 200* and my water temp hits 200* both stats are wide open. Plenty of air rushing thru both radiators--You've left al lot of details out about your LS1 powered car: Type of radiator--custom or what? Radiator ducting is probably only part of the answer. 245* isn't bad, but it could be much cooler. (BTW, you can't monitor the full story about your engine's heat if you don't have an oil temp gauge.)
If you're to continue tracking the car, what you need most is a track radiator. I can't say what will fit. Obvioulsy, you'll have to fix that. Some custom RX7 radiator should do the trick. If it were an FBody, I'd recommend the LG Motorsports designed rad. Made by Howe. But it probably won't fit.
A track rad will certainly keep your water and oil temps WAY down. It'll keep your engine very happy to avoid detonation. The absolute worst thing you can do to an LS1. If you don't go w/a better radiator, make sure you use the track's 100 octane to avoid detonation. Cheap insurance. Better than a hole in a piston.
Regarding your trans: can't say if its your synchro or clutch problem. Have you ever changed your trans fluid? How about a trans cooler? Well worth it and much cheaper than swaping rebuilds into the car.
Regards
Steve
T stat: I run a 160* stat w/425 RWHP. Nevertheless, when your water temp hits 200* and my water temp hits 200* both stats are wide open. Plenty of air rushing thru both radiators--You've left al lot of details out about your LS1 powered car: Type of radiator--custom or what? Radiator ducting is probably only part of the answer. 245* isn't bad, but it could be much cooler. (BTW, you can't monitor the full story about your engine's heat if you don't have an oil temp gauge.)
If you're to continue tracking the car, what you need most is a track radiator. I can't say what will fit. Obvioulsy, you'll have to fix that. Some custom RX7 radiator should do the trick. If it were an FBody, I'd recommend the LG Motorsports designed rad. Made by Howe. But it probably won't fit.
A track rad will certainly keep your water and oil temps WAY down. It'll keep your engine very happy to avoid detonation. The absolute worst thing you can do to an LS1. If you don't go w/a better radiator, make sure you use the track's 100 octane to avoid detonation. Cheap insurance. Better than a hole in a piston.
Regarding your trans: can't say if its your synchro or clutch problem. Have you ever changed your trans fluid? How about a trans cooler? Well worth it and much cheaper than swaping rebuilds into the car.
Regards
Steve
05-28-2005, 09:56 AM
#3
Steve,
I'm running an '85 Vette radiator that is 28.5"x17.5"x1.5" core with no ducting. I'm sure that is a large amount of the problem.
I don't have an oil cooler either yet... LG Motorsports is out of their CNC'd adapter plates and I didn't want to use a sandwich plate as it would compromise my ground clearance moving the oil filter lower. The car is pretty low.
I have a VDO guage that reads 0-250* (shows 10* increments past 200*). 26* timing in my tune with AFR 205's milled .024" with MLS gaskets (about 10:7:1) and TSP 233/239 cam, LT headers, March pulley, LS6 intake, FMS 30# injectors, ported TB, with a 23K mile shortblock ('99). It doesn't smoke under deceleration and should be healthy as it made 431rwhp on 91 octane. I haven't had time to do a leakdown test.
Thanks for the feedback. I"m running a stock Tstat which I thought opened up at 200* or 210*? I've heard the 160* Hypertech are crappy and can cause overheating. What brand are you running and what coolant?
THanks,
Mark
I'm running an '85 Vette radiator that is 28.5"x17.5"x1.5" core with no ducting. I'm sure that is a large amount of the problem.
I don't have an oil cooler either yet... LG Motorsports is out of their CNC'd adapter plates and I didn't want to use a sandwich plate as it would compromise my ground clearance moving the oil filter lower. The car is pretty low.
I have a VDO guage that reads 0-250* (shows 10* increments past 200*). 26* timing in my tune with AFR 205's milled .024" with MLS gaskets (about 10:7:1) and TSP 233/239 cam, LT headers, March pulley, LS6 intake, FMS 30# injectors, ported TB, with a 23K mile shortblock ('99). It doesn't smoke under deceleration and should be healthy as it made 431rwhp on 91 octane. I haven't had time to do a leakdown test.
Thanks for the feedback. I"m running a stock Tstat which I thought opened up at 200* or 210*? I've heard the 160* Hypertech are crappy and can cause overheating. What brand are you running and what coolant?
THanks,
Mark
Last edited by gnx7; 05-28-2005 at 10:52 AM.
05-28-2005, 12:41 PM
#4
Hi Mark,
Your rad should b OK w/ducting. At least give that the 1st shot.
I'm not that impressed w/the LG billet adapter. I have the entire LG radiator and adapter for the built in cooler. My headers actually interfered w/the billet adapter and a tube had to be massaged to allow for clearance w/o overheating the oil from contacting a header tube. It just doesn't look good, but prolly does nothing to restrict the flow.
I understand the concern w/a sandwich adapter for an oil cooler. Go with an adapter allowing for remote fitting of the filter. That would be my approach if I had to do it again. (1) much cheaper than the total LG setup--just use it w/your corvette rad, (2) no fittment problems with the headers contacting the adapter (3) if you punch up the front end, you've not lost a very expensive radiator and oil cooler but only a radiator. Yes, oil to water is best, but oil to air cooling w/a separate cooler is a close second and much cheaper.
My t stat is an SLP model 160*. It works fine and keeps the temps down on all occasions at the track.
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...3&BIG=100223-1
I'm running stock coolant as I have the LG radiator and it has mega cooling capacity as well as an oil cooler. Haven't had the need to switch to water and water wetter. So far so good.
I envy you having similar LS1 power but 1000 pounds ligher. Man do I envy you!!!. These F Bods are total pigs. Mine weighs in about 3800 with driver. They do fine for a high powered FBody and I can give a Z06 a run for its money but I'd NEVER be able to make up for 1000 pounds. Wow.
Steve
Your rad should b OK w/ducting. At least give that the 1st shot.
I'm not that impressed w/the LG billet adapter. I have the entire LG radiator and adapter for the built in cooler. My headers actually interfered w/the billet adapter and a tube had to be massaged to allow for clearance w/o overheating the oil from contacting a header tube. It just doesn't look good, but prolly does nothing to restrict the flow.
I understand the concern w/a sandwich adapter for an oil cooler. Go with an adapter allowing for remote fitting of the filter. That would be my approach if I had to do it again. (1) much cheaper than the total LG setup--just use it w/your corvette rad, (2) no fittment problems with the headers contacting the adapter (3) if you punch up the front end, you've not lost a very expensive radiator and oil cooler but only a radiator. Yes, oil to water is best, but oil to air cooling w/a separate cooler is a close second and much cheaper.
My t stat is an SLP model 160*. It works fine and keeps the temps down on all occasions at the track.
http://www.slponline.com/view_produc...3&BIG=100223-1
I'm running stock coolant as I have the LG radiator and it has mega cooling capacity as well as an oil cooler. Haven't had the need to switch to water and water wetter. So far so good.
I envy you having similar LS1 power but 1000 pounds ligher. Man do I envy you!!!. These F Bods are total pigs. Mine weighs in about 3800 with driver. They do fine for a high powered FBody and I can give a Z06 a run for its money but I'd NEVER be able to make up for 1000 pounds. Wow.
Steve
Originally Posted by gnx7
Steve,
I'm running an '85 Vette radiator that is 28.5"x17.5"x1.5" core with no ducting. I'm sure that is a large amount of the problem.
I don't have an oil cooler either yet... LG Motorsports is out of their CNC'd adapter plates and I didn't want to use a sandwich plate as it would compromise my ground clearance moving the oil filter lower. The car is pretty low.
I have a VDO guage that reads 0-250* (shows 10* increments past 200*). 26* timing in my tune with AFR 205's milled .024" with MLS gaskets (about 10:7:1) and TSP 233/239 cam, LT headers, March pulley, LS6 intake, FMS 30# injectors, ported TB, with a 23K mile shortblock ('99). It doesn't smoke under deceleration and should be healthy as it made 431rwhp on 91 octane. I haven't had time to do a leakdown test.
Thanks for the feedback. I"m running a stock Tstat which I thought opened up at 200* or 210*? I've heard the 160* Hypertech are crappy and can cause overheating. What brand are you running and what coolant?
THanks,
Mark
I'm running an '85 Vette radiator that is 28.5"x17.5"x1.5" core with no ducting. I'm sure that is a large amount of the problem.
I don't have an oil cooler either yet... LG Motorsports is out of their CNC'd adapter plates and I didn't want to use a sandwich plate as it would compromise my ground clearance moving the oil filter lower. The car is pretty low.
I have a VDO guage that reads 0-250* (shows 10* increments past 200*). 26* timing in my tune with AFR 205's milled .024" with MLS gaskets (about 10:7:1) and TSP 233/239 cam, LT headers, March pulley, LS6 intake, FMS 30# injectors, ported TB, with a 23K mile shortblock ('99). It doesn't smoke under deceleration and should be healthy as it made 431rwhp on 91 octane. I haven't had time to do a leakdown test.
Thanks for the feedback. I"m running a stock Tstat which I thought opened up at 200* or 210*? I've heard the 160* Hypertech are crappy and can cause overheating. What brand are you running and what coolant?
THanks,
Mark
Last edited by steve-d; 05-28-2005 at 12:52 PM.
05-28-2005, 04:41 PM
#5
I used the LG adaptor without an issue on my '98 and FLP headers.
Prior to that, with a stock pan and no oil cooler, I ran 7 qts without a problem.
LS1s have an issue with crank case ventilation. If you pull the throttle body off, you will probably see a ton of oil behind it.
Either build yourself a catch can between the PCV and TB to get the oil vapor out of the ventilation set up or convert your current PVC set to the Vette set which is a different valley plate and PCV set up.
I Highly recommend 7qts of oil if you are road racing ... a spun bearing is not a good thing ..
Prior to that, with a stock pan and no oil cooler, I ran 7 qts without a problem.
LS1s have an issue with crank case ventilation. If you pull the throttle body off, you will probably see a ton of oil behind it.
Either build yourself a catch can between the PCV and TB to get the oil vapor out of the ventilation set up or convert your current PVC set to the Vette set which is a different valley plate and PCV set up.
I Highly recommend 7qts of oil if you are road racing ... a spun bearing is not a good thing ..
05-30-2005, 01:08 AM
#6
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Like above, pull off the TB and check the intake. From the sounds of it, your intake is drowning in a pool of oil. Check the PCV valve for indications.
An alternative oil cooler adapter makes use of the oem vortech truck adapters. Search around and you'll find a writeup. Problem is GM does not sell just the block by itself, so your best bet might be salvage yard.
My cars oil consumption went down switching from 5 to 10 mobile1 oil. I also played around with various filter methods in the PCV system. A catch can worked best.
An alternative oil cooler adapter makes use of the oem vortech truck adapters. Search around and you'll find a writeup. Problem is GM does not sell just the block by itself, so your best bet might be salvage yard.
My cars oil consumption went down switching from 5 to 10 mobile1 oil. I also played around with various filter methods in the PCV system. A catch can worked best.
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05-31-2005, 06:21 PM
#9
I also ran the complete LG cooler/radiator combo with FLP's and had no clearence issues.
I am going to second the catch can. Get one of those on there and run a lap day and check levels in the can after each session. If you fill that can after one day you have ring issues.
Another thing to try to vent more pressure out of the motor is put a breather on the valve covers. It may smoke a tiny bit but if you dont get any fluid out after that, at least you know it is a pressure problem.
I am actually over 7 quarts if I remember right with the LG set up. Its been a little while since the car has run but I remember filling it going, "My god, it still wants more?!"
I am going to second the catch can. Get one of those on there and run a lap day and check levels in the can after each session. If you fill that can after one day you have ring issues.
Another thing to try to vent more pressure out of the motor is put a breather on the valve covers. It may smoke a tiny bit but if you dont get any fluid out after that, at least you know it is a pressure problem.
I am actually over 7 quarts if I remember right with the LG set up. Its been a little while since the car has run but I remember filling it going, "My god, it still wants more?!"
06-19-2005, 01:43 AM
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Mark,
I would bet that your problem is in the PCV system - Are you running a LS6 PCV or the stocker from your 99 motor?
Quote:
Many LS1 owners are faced with a few issues. There's the oil pumps that randomly die, the rod bolts that randomly break, roller rockers that randomly lose their bearings, and the oil consumption issue that seems to haunt some and not others. The oil consumption issue seems to be one of the most common issues on all LS1's out there, and this is due to the way the stock PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system is setup.
A PCV system is designed to force any positive crankcase pressure into the intake manifold, rather than continue allowing the engine to build up pressure inside. The LS1 system just happens to force oil along with the air as well, so GM seemed to take a stab at fixing the issue with the LS6 system. The LS6 setup pulls the pressure not from the valve cover, but from the VALLEY cover. This is the cover that resides under the intake manifold, and sits between the 2 cylinder heads.
In this writeup, I'll show you what all is needed to convert your LS1 over to the new LS6 style PCV setup. We will do this all for about $65 in parts (or $120+ if you buy the LS6 pcv hose rather than constructing one yourself as I show below).
NOTE: You must have the 2001+ style coolant vent tube as well for the LS6 valley cover to fit! All 2001+ LS1's will have this, and any LS1's that have upgraded to the "LS6 manifold" and pipes will also have the new coolant vent tube.
From: http://ls1howto.com/index.php?article=18
-Jason (Spaceman)
I would bet that your problem is in the PCV system - Are you running a LS6 PCV or the stocker from your 99 motor?
Quote:
Many LS1 owners are faced with a few issues. There's the oil pumps that randomly die, the rod bolts that randomly break, roller rockers that randomly lose their bearings, and the oil consumption issue that seems to haunt some and not others. The oil consumption issue seems to be one of the most common issues on all LS1's out there, and this is due to the way the stock PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system is setup.
A PCV system is designed to force any positive crankcase pressure into the intake manifold, rather than continue allowing the engine to build up pressure inside. The LS1 system just happens to force oil along with the air as well, so GM seemed to take a stab at fixing the issue with the LS6 system. The LS6 setup pulls the pressure not from the valve cover, but from the VALLEY cover. This is the cover that resides under the intake manifold, and sits between the 2 cylinder heads.
In this writeup, I'll show you what all is needed to convert your LS1 over to the new LS6 style PCV setup. We will do this all for about $65 in parts (or $120+ if you buy the LS6 pcv hose rather than constructing one yourself as I show below).
NOTE: You must have the 2001+ style coolant vent tube as well for the LS6 valley cover to fit! All 2001+ LS1's will have this, and any LS1's that have upgraded to the "LS6 manifold" and pipes will also have the new coolant vent tube.
From: http://ls1howto.com/index.php?article=18
-Jason (Spaceman)
