Mamo AFR 205's for 4" bore. $2300 shipped
12-22-2009, 05:10 PM
#1
Staging Lane
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Mamo AFR 205's for 4" bore. $2300 shipped 2600 miles. No issues ever. Beautiful work by Tony on these heads. I am changing setups and am selling these for a great price.
These are worked to fit anything up to about a 4.060 bore. All threads perfect, Tit. Retainers and double springs good to .625. No excuses-only bolted on once. I do not have any track or dyno numbers with them, but they have the instant response you have read about by others who have bolted these onto their ls2/ls3 motors.
Tony recommended a 238/605/114+1 with my stroker ls3 and it was very docile till you find some open road to let you run it. 295 Tires with good suspension are still useless till middle of third gear.
Price is shipped to the 48.
I'm off today and tomorrow and ready to ship. Paypal or Local cash only. I package securely and ship fast even though the ups place is probably crazy this week.
Do a search on here for more info, thats how I heard all the good things about Tony's work on the large bore 205's.
Yes, new AFR 205's are about the same price. You are essentially getting Tony's specialized porting and chamber work for free. These have the stock 66 cc chambers (not milled) and the wipe pattern that is barely visible on the valve tips is nicely centered.
Tony is great person to work with and the product he ships to you is like fine art.
Not dying to sell (lowballers) and no trades please. PM responses and good luck.
Happy Holidays
These are worked to fit anything up to about a 4.060 bore. All threads perfect, Tit. Retainers and double springs good to .625. No excuses-only bolted on once. I do not have any track or dyno numbers with them, but they have the instant response you have read about by others who have bolted these onto their ls2/ls3 motors.
Tony recommended a 238/605/114+1 with my stroker ls3 and it was very docile till you find some open road to let you run it. 295 Tires with good suspension are still useless till middle of third gear.
Price is shipped to the 48.
I'm off today and tomorrow and ready to ship. Paypal or Local cash only. I package securely and ship fast even though the ups place is probably crazy this week.
Do a search on here for more info, thats how I heard all the good things about Tony's work on the large bore 205's.
Yes, new AFR 205's are about the same price. You are essentially getting Tony's specialized porting and chamber work for free. These have the stock 66 cc chambers (not milled) and the wipe pattern that is barely visible on the valve tips is nicely centered.
Tony is great person to work with and the product he ships to you is like fine art.
Not dying to sell (lowballers) and no trades please. PM responses and good luck.
Happy Holidays
Last edited by 03 snake; 01-10-2010 at 06:19 PM.
12-23-2009, 11:39 AM
#4
Staging Lane
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Thanks for all the interest I have recieved. Pm's responded to.
Tony may chime in with flow numbers if he has time. I did not find the flow charts in my previous correspondence with him. I found several recent links to his 205 heads making great numbers on 40x LS motors.
-https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=952334
-http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1927098
For the curious, yes I have my cancelled check/bank statement to Tony's side corporation which will verify these heads' heritage. He chooses not to disclose publicly what his services cost, which I respect.
**Several persons working to get the money together but not sold yet**
This reference is an outstanding post from Pat G. It has some flow numbers and a short discussion about their relevance in the real world with a plastic intake.
The "recipe" to 500 rwhp with heads and cam.
It's not cheap, but if done right, it can be very streetable. Here is the list of components to address in order of importance:
Head flow
Compression
Camshaft selection
Exhaust selection
Intake manifold selection
Valvetrain geometry/stability
Finding lost hp mods
Head flow:
Contrary to popular belief, when running a plastic intake manifold on an LS1, airflow at .600" is virtually meaningless. There are several reasons why. First, an LS6 intake will start to lop off airflow above 265cfm. A stock FAST 90mm intake seems to lop it off around 275cfm and a ported FAST 90 seems to lop off flow above 280cfm. What all this means is that most all airflow gains above 280cfm will go un-noticed when you bolt a plastic intake up to it. The real trick is to pack in more airflow in the low and mid lifts. If you look at all of the top running heads/cam vehicles, they will all have heads with excellent flow at .300,.400 and .500".
Tony Mamo from Airflow Research and I have discussed this theory at great length and we decided to build a set of heads that maximized the airflow at the low and mid-lifts, even if it meant limiting the airflow up high. This is challenging with a 3.900" bore as too large an intake valve will be shrouded by the chamber wall and cylinder bore. Based on the success he's had with opening up the chamber walls for 4.00" bore motors with the AFR 205s, Tony Mamo opened up the combustion chamber walls of my 205s from 3.900" to 4.000". This gave more space for the 2.02 valves to flow well in the low and mid lifts. But when you open up the chamber, you also lose compression. This means you have to mill more. To get to a 57cc chamber, we had to mill the new 205s close to .060". Most of the time, head flow numbers are posted in unmilled form, but when milled, they will often drop dramatically. Tony Mamo was very conscientious with his valve jobs to make sure the head flow in milled form was outstanding. Here is what my 205s flowed on a 3.900" bore at 28" of H2O:
AFR 205s with 57cc chamber:
Lift.........200", .300", .400", .500", .550", .600"
Intake.....158,.. 220,.. 264,.. 285,.. 296,.. 300
Exhaust.. 122,.. 178,.. 217,.. 232,.. N/A,.. 241 (with pipe)
While there's nothing special about the flow numbers at .600", look at the numbers down low. Most unmilled heads flow in the low 140s at .200", the high 190s or low 200s at .300", and high 240s at .400". Since we're trying to maximize airflow within the flow limits of the plastic intake manifold, a gain of 20 cfm at .300" and .400" will show huge hp gains (over 20 rwhp) whereas a flow gain of 20 cfm at .600" will show virtually no gain. Case in point: I used to have AFR 205s and I swapped to AFR small bore 225s. The 225s flowed 20 cfm better at .550", 22cfm better at .600", and 25 cfm better at .650" than my old 205s. Guess what? We gained virtually 0 hp with the swap. We were even running a .650 lift cam to take advantage of the airflow. Nothing. The moral? Concentrate on getting more airflow within the flow limits of your intake manifold (ie, better flow at low and mid-lifts). Make sure your heads flow big numbers after they're milled.
On a side note, the 205s still retained the standard CNC porting from AFR. No additional material was removed. This meant that the airspeed was very high and throttle response is fantastic. My fuel economy has increased compared to running the AFR 225s.
Tony may chime in with flow numbers if he has time. I did not find the flow charts in my previous correspondence with him. I found several recent links to his 205 heads making great numbers on 40x LS motors.
-https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=952334
-http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1927098
For the curious, yes I have my cancelled check/bank statement to Tony's side corporation which will verify these heads' heritage. He chooses not to disclose publicly what his services cost, which I respect.
**Several persons working to get the money together but not sold yet**
This reference is an outstanding post from Pat G. It has some flow numbers and a short discussion about their relevance in the real world with a plastic intake.
The "recipe" to 500 rwhp with heads and cam.
It's not cheap, but if done right, it can be very streetable. Here is the list of components to address in order of importance:
Head flow
Compression
Camshaft selection
Exhaust selection
Intake manifold selection
Valvetrain geometry/stability
Finding lost hp mods
Head flow:
Contrary to popular belief, when running a plastic intake manifold on an LS1, airflow at .600" is virtually meaningless. There are several reasons why. First, an LS6 intake will start to lop off airflow above 265cfm. A stock FAST 90mm intake seems to lop it off around 275cfm and a ported FAST 90 seems to lop off flow above 280cfm. What all this means is that most all airflow gains above 280cfm will go un-noticed when you bolt a plastic intake up to it. The real trick is to pack in more airflow in the low and mid lifts. If you look at all of the top running heads/cam vehicles, they will all have heads with excellent flow at .300,.400 and .500".
Tony Mamo from Airflow Research and I have discussed this theory at great length and we decided to build a set of heads that maximized the airflow at the low and mid-lifts, even if it meant limiting the airflow up high. This is challenging with a 3.900" bore as too large an intake valve will be shrouded by the chamber wall and cylinder bore. Based on the success he's had with opening up the chamber walls for 4.00" bore motors with the AFR 205s, Tony Mamo opened up the combustion chamber walls of my 205s from 3.900" to 4.000". This gave more space for the 2.02 valves to flow well in the low and mid lifts. But when you open up the chamber, you also lose compression. This means you have to mill more. To get to a 57cc chamber, we had to mill the new 205s close to .060". Most of the time, head flow numbers are posted in unmilled form, but when milled, they will often drop dramatically. Tony Mamo was very conscientious with his valve jobs to make sure the head flow in milled form was outstanding. Here is what my 205s flowed on a 3.900" bore at 28" of H2O:
AFR 205s with 57cc chamber:
Lift.........200", .300", .400", .500", .550", .600"
Intake.....158,.. 220,.. 264,.. 285,.. 296,.. 300
Exhaust.. 122,.. 178,.. 217,.. 232,.. N/A,.. 241 (with pipe)
While there's nothing special about the flow numbers at .600", look at the numbers down low. Most unmilled heads flow in the low 140s at .200", the high 190s or low 200s at .300", and high 240s at .400". Since we're trying to maximize airflow within the flow limits of the plastic intake manifold, a gain of 20 cfm at .300" and .400" will show huge hp gains (over 20 rwhp) whereas a flow gain of 20 cfm at .600" will show virtually no gain. Case in point: I used to have AFR 205s and I swapped to AFR small bore 225s. The 225s flowed 20 cfm better at .550", 22cfm better at .600", and 25 cfm better at .650" than my old 205s. Guess what? We gained virtually 0 hp with the swap. We were even running a .650 lift cam to take advantage of the airflow. Nothing. The moral? Concentrate on getting more airflow within the flow limits of your intake manifold (ie, better flow at low and mid-lifts). Make sure your heads flow big numbers after they're milled.
On a side note, the 205s still retained the standard CNC porting from AFR. No additional material was removed. This meant that the airspeed was very high and throttle response is fantastic. My fuel economy has increased compared to running the AFR 225s.
Last edited by 03 snake; 12-23-2009 at 12:44 PM.
