Monsoon power rating to speakers?
05-16-2012, 09:33 PM
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Monsoon power rating to speakers? I know the amp is rated at 200w RMS (this is in a 2002 Camaro) and is 8 channel, but what is the power output at the speakers? Does anyone know how much power the factory speakers are rated for?
The reason I ask is I am planning to run my aftermarket door speakers (component set) and sail panel speakers off a 75wx4 @4ohm RMS amp (keep rear fills wired to stock wiring), but if it's not going to be any more powerful than the stock Monsoon amp then I don't see a point in going through the hassle of running new wire to the doors and sail panels.
The reason I ask is I am planning to run my aftermarket door speakers (component set) and sail panel speakers off a 75wx4 @4ohm RMS amp (keep rear fills wired to stock wiring), but if it's not going to be any more powerful than the stock Monsoon amp then I don't see a point in going through the hassle of running new wire to the doors and sail panels.
05-17-2012, 08:29 AM
#3
Nobody knows. A basic assumption is 25-30 watts RMS per channel into eight channels although I'm sure some channels get proportionally more (subs) than others (tweeters).
However, the issue goes beyond just power. Your 75 watts per channel is two to three times as much power to each speaker but that only results in a 3dB to 4.7dB change in volume... noticeable but not particularly significant. Also, the Monsoon amp does specific signal filtering for each speaker element (sail panel subs, door tweeters, etc.). Your aftermarket amp will just provide full-range signal to all channels so your sound shaping will change significantly - especially for the sail panel subs.
However, the issue goes beyond just power. Your 75 watts per channel is two to three times as much power to each speaker but that only results in a 3dB to 4.7dB change in volume... noticeable but not particularly significant. Also, the Monsoon amp does specific signal filtering for each speaker element (sail panel subs, door tweeters, etc.). Your aftermarket amp will just provide full-range signal to all channels so your sound shaping will change significantly - especially for the sail panel subs.
05-17-2012, 09:21 AM
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If the amp has high pass/low pass filters, won't that do the same thing as the Monsoon in terms of sending proper signals to the specific speakers?
05-17-2012, 10:04 AM
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If you have an aftermarket HU with pre-outs, most decent units will include controls for LPF to the sub and HPF to the fronts/rears.
HPF and LPF on your amp does the same thing, but with a real set of variable electronic elements. The HU does it with DSP. I generally prefer to leave the amp settings as open as possible and control HPF/LPF from the HU.
The Monsoon HPF/LPF values are fixed and not really known, although people have put forth educated guesses. The simple RC HPF filters on the tweeters do not incur much of a loss of power but are considered cheap first-order filters.
If you use an aftermarket component crossover module, it will provide better frequency separation, but it will also incur more of a loss of power than the simpler Monsoon filters. You would need more power to overcome that loss and keep the same volume levels.
I know you're all concerned about wiring, it's not that hard and doesn't take that much effort. Just run some quality 16 gage into the doors and leave the monsoon wiring in place, disconnected. It doesn't really pay to cut up the monsoon wiring to take advantage of the chinsy wires already in place. Having home-run wires directly to your amp without splicing makes for a cleaner installation, overall.
HPF and LPF on your amp does the same thing, but with a real set of variable electronic elements. The HU does it with DSP. I generally prefer to leave the amp settings as open as possible and control HPF/LPF from the HU.
The Monsoon HPF/LPF values are fixed and not really known, although people have put forth educated guesses. The simple RC HPF filters on the tweeters do not incur much of a loss of power but are considered cheap first-order filters.
If you use an aftermarket component crossover module, it will provide better frequency separation, but it will also incur more of a loss of power than the simpler Monsoon filters. You would need more power to overcome that loss and keep the same volume levels.
I know you're all concerned about wiring, it's not that hard and doesn't take that much effort. Just run some quality 16 gage into the doors and leave the monsoon wiring in place, disconnected. It doesn't really pay to cut up the monsoon wiring to take advantage of the chinsy wires already in place. Having home-run wires directly to your amp without splicing makes for a cleaner installation, overall.
05-17-2012, 11:20 AM
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That was my plan to begin with, I want to run all new wire from the new amp to the new speakers. The only speakers that would still be connected to the stock wiring are the rear 4" fill speakers. Here are the specs for my Pioneer HU, does it have the ability to do the filtering instead of the amp?
http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=Pion...delid=21295231
The amps I am considering are a Crossfire XP60004:
http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htd...02_xp_spec.asp
or Pioneer GM-D9500F:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ries/GM-D9500F
http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=Pion...delid=21295231
The amps I am considering are a Crossfire XP60004:
http://www.crossfirecaraudio.com/htd...02_xp_spec.asp
or Pioneer GM-D9500F:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ries/GM-D9500F
05-17-2012, 12:27 PM
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yes, it's in the user manual for the HU. You can run filters on both the HU and the amp, but whichever one is more restrictive will be the only one having an effect.
I made a post a while back on how to combine HU DSP and amp hardware filters to create a bandpass filter of only mid-bass 80-300 Hz to the sail panels. Look it up if you're interested, otherwise just keep it simple. Mimicking the Monsoon design with better speakers, HU, and amps all around takes at least 7 channels, IMHO. Front mains, rear fills, sails mid-bass, and sub-bass.
I made a post a while back on how to combine HU DSP and amp hardware filters to create a bandpass filter of only mid-bass 80-300 Hz to the sail panels. Look it up if you're interested, otherwise just keep it simple. Mimicking the Monsoon design with better speakers, HU, and amps all around takes at least 7 channels, IMHO. Front mains, rear fills, sails mid-bass, and sub-bass.
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05-17-2012, 02:53 PM
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Ok, bear with me as I'm probably asking a lot of easy questions but I haven't messed with an audio system in a long time, and even then I was just sticking replacement speakers in the car and rolling with it. I'm trying to learn as I go and I want to understand what and how these changes affect the speaker output.
With my headunit, I have a subwoofer output option, as well as a high pass filter option. Would I want to use both of these features at the same time to filter only low signal to the sail panels, and then only highs to the doors? Or would I want to use only the sub output option so that the fronts still get full range?
With my headunit, I have a subwoofer output option, as well as a high pass filter option. Would I want to use both of these features at the same time to filter only low signal to the sail panels, and then only highs to the doors? Or would I want to use only the sub output option so that the fronts still get full range?
05-17-2012, 04:31 PM
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...ail-panel.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...nd-system.html
Take a look at those.
I am getting the impression that you're confused about the sub portion of your build. As described in the FAQ, the stock Monsoon system takes all four HU amplified outputs and does two things: 2nd stage amplification and frequency separation. It sends the sail panel cones only midbass-bass frequencies, these cones have no tweeters. It sends the doors and hatch full range signals, and the speakers have little cheapo RC filters built in to send the tweeters only high freqs so they don't burn up trying to play low stuff.
Now, it sounds like you're trying to do a hybrid combination of new HU with an external amp and the monsoon amp. You haven't made any mention of using a real 10-12" sub, only the stock mid-bass cones in the sail panels. These midbass cones won't really perform well for real sub-bass frequencies, below 100Hz. In the OEM design, they are serving a role of supplementing the midbass that doors are probably capable of reproducing, but not with enough power. Bass takes much more power than high frequencies.
If you want to continue to use the sail panels as a mid-bass, you can either continue to let the Monsoon amp drive them. ...or find a multi-channel amp with an adjustable LPF that goes up to 300 Hz or so to drive them and set the HU LPF to off, or as high as possible. You would use the sub-output RCAs from your HU for these channels.
Or, do what a lot of others do. ...get a nice 10" in a stealth enclosure, with a monoblock. Let your 4 channel run doors/hatch. Forget about extra midbass in the sails. Leave them to the monsoon or disconnect them. Rely on the additional power going to your doors to fill in midbass. The OEM system was never really equipped to produce true sub-bass frequencies that an aftermarket HU sub pre-out is intended for.
Hopefully I didn't confuse you. If I did, send me a PM or ask questions here.
EDIT: To clarify, the HU HPF setting *only* affects the front/rear channels, NOT the sub output RCAs. The LPF setting on the HU *only* affects the sub output RCAs, not the front/rear RCAs. So yes, you can effectively use them both at the same time, depending on how high you want your subs to try to go, and how low you want your little doors/hatch to try to go.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...nd-system.html
Take a look at those.
I am getting the impression that you're confused about the sub portion of your build. As described in the FAQ, the stock Monsoon system takes all four HU amplified outputs and does two things: 2nd stage amplification and frequency separation. It sends the sail panel cones only midbass-bass frequencies, these cones have no tweeters. It sends the doors and hatch full range signals, and the speakers have little cheapo RC filters built in to send the tweeters only high freqs so they don't burn up trying to play low stuff.
Now, it sounds like you're trying to do a hybrid combination of new HU with an external amp and the monsoon amp. You haven't made any mention of using a real 10-12" sub, only the stock mid-bass cones in the sail panels. These midbass cones won't really perform well for real sub-bass frequencies, below 100Hz. In the OEM design, they are serving a role of supplementing the midbass that doors are probably capable of reproducing, but not with enough power. Bass takes much more power than high frequencies.
If you want to continue to use the sail panels as a mid-bass, you can either continue to let the Monsoon amp drive them. ...or find a multi-channel amp with an adjustable LPF that goes up to 300 Hz or so to drive them and set the HU LPF to off, or as high as possible. You would use the sub-output RCAs from your HU for these channels.
Or, do what a lot of others do. ...get a nice 10" in a stealth enclosure, with a monoblock. Let your 4 channel run doors/hatch. Forget about extra midbass in the sails. Leave them to the monsoon or disconnect them. Rely on the additional power going to your doors to fill in midbass. The OEM system was never really equipped to produce true sub-bass frequencies that an aftermarket HU sub pre-out is intended for.
Hopefully I didn't confuse you. If I did, send me a PM or ask questions here.
EDIT: To clarify, the HU HPF setting *only* affects the front/rear channels, NOT the sub output RCAs. The LPF setting on the HU *only* affects the sub output RCAs, not the front/rear RCAs. So yes, you can effectively use them both at the same time, depending on how high you want your subs to try to go, and how low you want your little doors/hatch to try to go.
Last edited by Capricio; 05-17-2012 at 04:36 PM.
05-17-2012, 06:23 PM
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I guess I forgot to mention it, but all of the speakers are going to be aftermarket units. The sail panel is getting filled with Kicker 10CVT654 subs, the front speakers are Alpine SPS-600c with a built in crossover for the tweeters. The rear fill speakers are Kicker DS40's.
I figured that by using the subwoofer output option on the HU, I could then send only low frequency signal to the sail panel subs, and keep full range everywhere else. The only thing I planned to leave connected to the stock wiring is the rear 4" fills since they don't really make a huge difference in the system and it would seem to make wiring a lot easier (4 speakers, 4 channel aftermarket amp).
I figured that by using the subwoofer output option on the HU, I could then send only low frequency signal to the sail panel subs, and keep full range everywhere else. The only thing I planned to leave connected to the stock wiring is the rear 4" fills since they don't really make a huge difference in the system and it would seem to make wiring a lot easier (4 speakers, 4 channel aftermarket amp).
