libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Edelbrock does:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../5000/5229.pdf

But I wonder how effective it really is, since the firewall connection is pretty whimpy to the sheet metal. That is one reason I didn't go that route. Maybe some folks who have used this piece can chime in on what they think post-install...

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You want data?

http://vimeo.com/13810218

The Camaro had no STB and took a shot directly in the wheel at about 60mph.

Knuckle and shock snapped in half.
Lower and upper A-Arm bent.
Lower ball joint almost pulled out of the lower A-Arm.

Mustang had the entire front clip moved over about 4 inches.
Broke the rack, upper/lower core supports, bumper supports.

The floppy, saggy, shock tower in the 4th gen Camaro moved less than an inch.

STB not needed for a daily.

/thread

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

Ouch, crashes suck.

But that proves nothing to me. I have enjoyed the benefits on both my daily driver RS and good weather car SS.

I wonder if Mitchntx has ever driven his F-Body (does he even own one, it shows a CTS in his pic) with a STB to actually evaluate the difference?

If you don't know how to think for yourself, and try things on your own, you can always just listen to alleged "experts", but don't expect the terrain to always match their map. Red pill, or blue pill? One leads to personal discovery...

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Guilty ... I do not own nor have I ever owned a Camero.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

"LAW Motorsports can build your car, your cage or anything in between. The picture links below illustrate a sampling of our work.

Have a special need? Just send a note and we will do our best to respond same day."

Obviously running a business over there Mitchntx -- are you an LS1Tech Sponsor? Or did you mean personal business race site?

gm02ceta

iTrader: (9)

I had the Edelbrock 3 point STB in post #61 and I notice a difference in my 2000 SS. I now have a SLP one on my current car and although it's only a 2 pointer it too help tighten up the front.

Plan and simple a STB helps increase the overall rigidity from whatever front structural flexing is encountered during spirited driving. Plus they look nice and do serve a purpose no matter how small the difference.

SexyTransAm

iTrader: (6)

they r good to lean on when workin under the hood! thats bout it. the only reason i got one is cause it was damn cheap

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

So why did you switch? Did you notice much of a difference between the two?

Ironhead

THIS PERSON had the following the say during a discussion about six years ago on ANOTHER BOARD....

Element

iTrader: (5)

That's why I got mine - being short and fat doesn't lend itself to working in the back of an f-body engine bay.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Ah ... now it's personal.

Please note ... search, go ahead ... I never spam the boards trying to sell something or hype how wonderful I am. I'm not on TV nor have I won any parking lot championships. I don't offer a price for anything here or on my info-only website. Hell, the last cage we built for free.

So it's obviously gone beyond what you "feel in your butt" and into a personal attack

Which I admitted ... never owned a Camaro. I am on my 5th Firebird, though.

And finally, you are just making stuff up in a sad attempt to ... what are trying to accomplish? Validate what you feel in your *** or just have to be right?

I venture a guess I've been on these forums since before your mom uninstalled Net-Nanny. Your type will come and go.

In the meantime ... it's nothing short of entertaining watching you meltdown. Thanks for that.


On topic content:
I do use an STB to make sure a wrecked 4th gen doesn't have the towers tweaked. It's a quick check to lay the bar over the studs.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

^ Just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy with your signature, and well, you are wrong, since it is NOT personal, it's your business, and I guess you are not an LS1Tech sponsor. Just the facts is all, not personal.

Fact still is, you have admitted to never having used a STB in use driving on an F-Body, so you would have no personal experiential basis to draw from. Well yea, that part HAS to be PERSONAL.

"The Emperor's New Clothes" comes to mind...

FBodyPerformer

iTrader: (19)

Will you both of you STFU so this thread doesn't get locked which has a lot of diff and useful opinions in it for people to make thier decisions on STBs

OP: I use a STB on my car. Ya it looks really good in the engine bay, but I do notice a difference. The front doesn't lean when makin a sharp or u-turn. Usually now the tires give and the car understeers.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

I disagree. I wouldn't take most of the opinions in here about the STB with more than a fraction of a grain of salt. I'm not saying that I know it does nothing.. I don't know. I just haven't seen much proof that it does anything for a 4th gen. I guess there were some tests run back in the day from what I'm reading. Though I wouldn't listen to the average Joe's "I felt like it was more planted in corners" one bit. I think there's a lot of placebo effect taking place to make people feel better about themselves after they blew a few hundred on a part that they "want" to work

One thing that I DO know is that the STB does almost next to absolutely nothing compared to like a swaybar, shock, or spring install.

geez.. what a rebel I've been lately

6LITEREATER

iTrader: (56)

Guys, I've seen chalk string tests (where you tie off the chalk strings to mounting points to do a flex test) and there IS flex.

STBs DO work IF they are a good design (if they drop right in, they probably are not a good design, you have to hang the suspension to install good ones).

I think after SFC's and other stuff they are needed less and less but they do offer strengthening.

FBodyPerformer

iTrader: (19)

The point I was trying to make is people can read over a wide variety of peoples pros and cons in this thread and decide what they want after that. Like the point of "it might not do much, it it's cheap" but if those two idiots keep arguing, this will get locked and no one else will get to post their opinions for people to read and take into consideration.

What I think...it can't hurt the handling of a car to have it on, right?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I'm not arguing anything.

I keep posting real word data points and the other idiot feels compelled in a lame attempt to discredit my opinion simply because he felt an "immediate difference".

While I have no personal knowledge, I doubt seriously he ran 10 laps with one and then 10 laps without, compared lap times and made a judgement call based upon real world data.

Over the last 13 years, I've seen so many "magic parts" filter through these forums it's unbelievable.

I was fortunate enough to crew for Gigliotti when he raced his C5 in SCCA Trans AM and was there when C5 Chassis #1 was loaded for it's first race in SCCA World Challenge.

I retired my 98 TA in 2004 after 4 years of open tracking it. Based on what Lou taught me, I built my own Trans AM for CMC racing in 05 and have been fortunate enough to win a few regional races ... enough to claim the 2007 and 2008 regional championship. I owe Lou and Louis a lot for their patience and time spent.

Since then I've helped my competitors build cars ... the most recent was an American Iron car that will win this year's regional championship and be highly competitive at Nationals. And did for nothing. He was a friend.

When the rules changed and all cars had to have two door bars, we altered several competitors cars to make them legal ... for nothing.

Why?

It was helping a competitor get his car back on track and be safe. It's no fun racing by yourself. My kids are grown and moved out, so I have a lot free time and a little bit of disposable income to play around.

At most, I either get reimbursed for supplies or give the owner a BOM and they go get the stuff I need.

I have a really good friend who owns a welding/Gas Supply business and I get all my supplies for free ... wire, gas, gloves, discs, wheels ... whatever. Why does he do it? Same reason.

So why would I charge for something I don't have to pay for? Because I don;t run a business?

I have a regular 40/week job at a nuke plant and this car thing is a hobby.

Liberty ... if you really have read all this, then I hope you realize that I'm not some punk kid who has read about **** on the internet.

Find some one local like Lou and Louis Gigliotti. Give them your time and sweat and you will learn a lot in return.

On Topic:
We used an old BMR STB today as a cheater bar to pry a set of NASCAR style door bars into place. Worked great. Felt an immediate difference. Those bars are really planted.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

It definitely can't hurt! No question about that. But there's a difference between that and claiming it works because you think you felt something. Like I said, I think it's a psychological thing with a lot of people. Who wants to buy something, add it to the car, and then realize that it did nothing to improve the car??? Not many people I don't think. Although I'm willing to admit when I waste money on my car. I've done it quite a few times in the past.

FWIW.. I tried one myself in the past. I felt no difference with it on or off. I've since had it off for a long time. It didn't hurt when it was on.

libertyforall1776

iTrader: (2)

The reality is, add the STB as your FIRST modification to STOCK suspension, this is when you will notice it the improvement the most, and it is the easiest change.

Just out at a cruise night last night, talked to a guy with a '98 SS and his first mod. was a STB, and his explanation mirrored mine, somewhat similar to post #73 in this thread.

In addition, most people are not living at the track -- they drive their cars on streets -- many as daily drivers (at least during nice weather) where they will appreciate the improvements the most. On example: I do a U-Turn almost daily to get to my place, and I can take that U-Turn much more aggressively and with greater precision and stability since adding the STB in both my Camaros -- this improves my driving enjoyment.

Arc00TA

iTrader: (17)

Unless you feel the need to get a diamond studded chome-moly STB like OP its going to set you back a cool $60. For that price you should get one just because it makes people go oooooh cool you have suspension parts (ricers in particular love them, especially if you get a matching front and back set ) If it does something for you, great. If not, well it looks like a towel rack in your engine bay so whats not to like.

BTW liberty, I think if you get any more aggressive with your U-turns they will become donuts