RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

Here is the before sheet to my alignment:




And the after:



I took it in to get aligned because I replaced the tie rod ends. When I took it in it was pulling to the right a little and when going straight the steering wheel would be cocked a little to the left. Well after the alignment, those two issues persist. I realize the car will pull to the right on crowned roads but even in a flat parking lot it pulled to the right a little. The steering wheel not being centered is driving me nuts too. Should I take it back or is there something bigger wrong?

85irocinjected

Take the car back and get it re-aligned. They need to center your steering wheel FIRST THING before touching any of the adjustments. In theory since you have more positive caster on the RH side your vehicle should pull to the left (or the side with the least amount of positive caster). Check to make sure ALL your tires are inflated properly as that can cause a pull if one side is lower than the other. You can have them bump the left caster down a bit to help offset the pull to the right. Typically you want .5* less positive caster on your left side than the right side due to our roads slanting to the right.

85irocinjected

Also just realized your CAMBER is off on both sides.. Do these people not know how to align? Camber and Toe are typically the same on BOTH sides.

Fixing the camber may solve your pulling problem without adjusting caster.

UMI Sales

iTrader: (1)

It looks like they just moved the toe because you told them what you did? I hope they didn't charge you for a full alignment. It would appear since they're in the "green" they didn't touch anything as far as caster and camber.

Oh, and with the toe so close to zero, I'd expect wandering anyway. Do you still have rubber front bushings? It can easily go toe out.

ramey

RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

Yes, the car still has stock rubber front bushings. I also explicitly stated the steering wheel is off center. It's not off by much but it's enough to annoy me. I was just making sure I'm not just too ****.

They tried to charge me for just a toe adjustment before aligning the car, but I told them I wanted the full alignment full year unlimited alignment package so I can take my car back as many times through out the year as I want to.

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

You're overlooking one BIG thing....In today's world, "in the green" is all that most shops will look for. GM put a HUGE tolerance range, in order to minimize warranty their costs, The alignment companies program their machines accordingly, and "serious enthusiasts" then wonder why their cars don't handle too well.

Therefore, it's imperitive that you find a COMPETENT alignment shop, NOT a "lifetime guarantee", tire shop, kind of place. Most areas have at least one shop that caters to enthusiasts.

JD_AMG

Tell them exact specs to put your alignment at, not just "get it in the green", or "good enough".
Example:
-1 camber on both sides
+ 5 caster on both sides
0 Toe on both sides
Alignment is seriously not hard to do at all for a shop, just takes some time to adjust and get everything right. I brought my car to the plaza tire my buddy works at, we put it on the rack and got it aligned to the exact specs I wanted in like 15 minutes...

UMI Sales

iTrader: (1)

I like 1/16 in for toe. Straight up for caster feels better than split for road crown but you may prefer a tiny bit of split, 2 tenths deg or so.

RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

What would all that be in degrees for that machine in the pic? If you could jot down the camber, caster, and toe you think would be best, I'll hand them to the alignment person tomorrow when I take it back.

joecar

For daily driver on the street...?

You have to give them very specific settings...

For example, I tell them I want exactly this:

camber: LEFT -0.1°, RIGHT -0.1°
caster: LEFT +4.8°, RIGHT +4.8°
toe: LEFT +0.05°, RIGHT +0.05° (toe in)

and I watch him doing it until he gets it exact.

RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

Yes daily on the street, as in a couple thousand miles a year probably. I have another car for the brunt of the driving but will likely drive this car every day it's not raining from spring to fall. The only track time it will see is a couple quarter mile drag passes.

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

There's ALWAYS a disagreement over camber settings, the "street heros" always tell you that -1* (or even a little more negative) is what you want, and yes, it will increase cornering force, but at the expense of edge wear. I always run 0* camber. Yes, I might give up a tiny bit of cornering grip, but my tires wear completely even across the tread, and secondly, I'm not racing anybody.

Caster is another point of disagreement. again, the "street heroes" tell you to run equal caster on both sides, but generally, a little more caster, .2-.3* on the passenger side will allow the car to run straighter on slightly crowned roads. 5-5.5* is a good point to aim for.

Toe in of around 1/16" is a good number. That translates to approximately 0.03* per side. Keep in mind, that on the newer alignment machines, such as the Hunter Hawk Eye, toe in is a POSITIVE number. If the screen reads NEGATIVE toe in, that means the car is "toeing out"....

UMI Sales

iTrader: (1)

Between leadfoot and joecar i think we have a winner.

Since you're only doing an occasional drag pass.

camber: LEFT -0.05°, RIGHT -0.05°
caster: LEFT +4.8°, RIGHT +4.8°
toe: LEFT +0.04°, RIGHT +0.04° (toe in)

Let us know how you make out. I'm following with interest as it's a sense of satisfaction to have a project work out. Good bunch of guys on here like those up there ^^^.

ramey

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

Your car will pull to the right if you do not add a bit more caster to the front right tire because of the curve in the road. Having them the same may cause you to fight the wheel on some roads.

SS SLP2

iTrader: (8)

OKKK , as usual with this question you get several differant answers and most of the answers are close enough to get by.
AS my standard answer " I don't claim to be a x'pert , retired but still pratice a little and STILL learning" )

My first statment
I think your main problem is tire pull, could be old/new tire,front /back tire
a bad tire could cause pull AND center steering to be off also

looking at the after specs ( specs are not perfect but should no cause any problems) the car should not pull OR have steering wheel off center if the wheel was set with referance to rear thrust line
I would begain by crossing the two front tires ( repeate front only) will not matter if they are diractional or not if run only a short time to check out a problem, IF no differance put them back as were and cross the two rear.

a mormal complete align on the F-body should require 30-45 min. to chk all parts/air/tires front and rear. and cost about 75-100 in my neck of the woods, I do not think you are going to find many if any techs who are going to set the alignment to any EXACT specs
as most align racks will show a point differant setting as the rack moves about ( the rack which I was useing was a 32k rack alone.

I like a "little" pos camber, close to equal
caster about a half deg lead on right , with caster set high for high speed
toe about 1/16 pos , with wheel centered with referance to rear thrust line
This should be set last.
enough of this rambling , my wife suggested I go fishing
Just my .02'
Johnny

RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

Well I took it back to the shop at 8:30am this morning and gave them your settings. This is what it came out with:



Car does drive better. Still pulling a little to the right, but it's very little, and I attribute that to the caster not being .5 apart, as you warned. I'm ok with that. The steering wheel is also pretty damn close to straight when on a non crowned road. They did point out that the rear thrust angle is out of spec though and that could be attributing to the right pull. Opinions now?

UMI Sales

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully you don't mind the straight up caster (or as close to straight up as they can get it). If we use the "repeat engineering tests three times" rule, chances are your caster will be different after a few miles anyway. I'm a fan of straight up mainly since it stabilizes everything on track days and on the big end of the dragstrip. If you got the lifetime alignment package you could always have them throw a bit more caster in next trip.

I was trying to keep this thread as tech only but if your thrust angle is off you could square it up with these:

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...roducts_id=393

I'm glad you are making some progress. It's always more fun to drive a properly aligned vehicle...

ramey

85irocinjected

A negative thrust can cause the vehicle to pull to the right a bit. Typically though under 1/2 a degree negative/positive thrust is not enough to notice/effect anything anything. But it can. And you want it to be as close to perfect as possible anyhow.

Usually when the thrust angle is off on a solid axle car it just causes the vehicle to track sideways to an extent. But it has to be WAY off.
Ever seen a truck going down the road and the *** end is further to one side of the lane while the front end is at the opposite side of the lane but the truck is going straight...

UMI Sales

iTrader: (1)

85irocinjected:

That truck in your signature is awesome. My dad had a '66 and a '69. Three on the tree, 292 straight...

RebelExtrm02

iTrader: (3)

I was actually going to ask what would be needed to square up the rear end. So that post is a perfect plug. Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm gonna give it a good tuneup today and drive it for a bit before I pass any more judgement.