ChrisUlrich

I know the V has a proven track record, on the track! Which is what people want when doing this upgrade. But I am looking for more "oh crap" stopping power. When driving along and I just need to stop as fast as possible.

Or even bringing this further... how does the Wilwood kit compare to these two brake kits?

brigade24

Best brake rotors, HP+ pads, and some good tires...

save your ca$h.

ChrisUlrich

Wow... really? Don't mean to sound disrespectful, but is there proof really showing there is only a slight improvement?

I would have imagined anyone one of the three would be dramatic.

ChrisUlrich

Sorry to beat a dead horse here... just looking for some clear answers.

scj

iTrader: (89)

The truth is, your brakes can only stop as quickly as your tires will allow. Are big brake kits helpful, yes, but unless your really pushing them as hard as they'll go with a good set of sticky tires capable of handling the extra stopping force then you'll probably never see a good worthwhile increase in stopping distance or speed on back to back testing. I've got the ctsv brakes on the front of my car, and they look tremendously better, and I'm sure with the toyo r888's warmed up and some carbotech xp20 pads they'll stop hard enough to pull my teeth out, but I'd never seen that anywhere but on the track. If the car you're considering the swap on is a street car then just get some good streetable pads, fresh dot4 fluid, and bleed them really well and they'll stop and that will suit your needs perfectly for the street. If you want the bbk for looks, then that's your justification to spending the money.

ChrisUlrich

I never actually thought of it that way... can I ask you this then?

Would you at least go as far as saying that a strong set of pads/rotors vs a big brake kit is still in favor of the big brake kit? I understand what you're saying, I really do. But i'm not sure if you're saying that it's just maximizing the potential you're talking about. Meaning, is 80% (20% being accessible only with tires, track prep, etc...) of the brake upgrade better than 100% of the stock setup?

frez777

which are the best rotors?

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

Unless you run really sticky rubber up front, and track the car often, a big brake kit is absolutely NOT worth it. It will not make the car stop any quicker on the street than a set of stock brakes with decent pads.

The only reasons to upgrade to a BBK is for pad compound availability and price, and increased heat capability for track use. Your tires will always be the limiting factor on how well you can stop the car.

gm02ceta

iTrader: (9)

Regardless of tires don't let anyone tell you bigger brakes isn't worth it on the street or track!

Big brakes are useful in most situations. Reduce brake fade and consistency is the reason people prefer larger braking systems.

Unertl42

iTrader: (63)

I completely disagree. It adds some rotating mass with the larger rotor, but the increase in surface area per rotation will decrease stopping distance.

ChrisUlrich

That's kinda what I was thinking... I kinda don't understand how a big brake kit only applies to track use.

I would love some numbers on these setups. Everyone has an opinion but they always seem so bias towards one side or another.

The idea is for me to smash my face on the steering wheel in need of a desperate stop. I can't believe that good pads/rotors on a stock brake setup is just as good as a 6 piston C6 Z06 or 4 piston CTS V setup.

Midnight02

iTrader: (8)

The problem here (as stated above) is that your tires are the limiting factor. If you throw an aggressive pad in the stock LS1 brake system, there's plenty of friction to pass the threshhold of ABS (or lock up the tires without it). You could throw a nice big brake kit on it, however with the same tires, you run into the same limitation.

The big brake kits are great for looks and for the track -- better cooling, different pad and rotor options, etc. however if you're just looking to stop on the street, throw enough pad on there to get to the ABS threshhold quickly (a HP+ in the front will accomplish that) and that's the best you can do (without a tire upgrade).

For the sake of comparison, I run the stock LS1 brakes with very aggressive pads in the front (DTC-60 or DTC-70 depending on what I have around at the time) on NAPA blank rotors. On track with R-compound tires all around, the tires are still the limiting factor for braking. As I continue to get faster and the cooling limitations of the stock system becomes a bigger issue, then I'll explore the C6 or CTS-V upgrades.

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

Agreed midnight. I think the real issue here is that some people giving advice have no clue about the basic function of braking systems. I suggest they read Stoptech's white papers, easily found on their site. Most giving advice probably have never used both types of brakes. I have, and like you know how capable a factory set-up can be made. The issue with the stock brakes is thermal capacity. On the street, with street tires, you will NEVER even approach the limits of a stock system with good pads. If you have, then that means you didn't select the proper pads. I have a big brake kit on my car, as it sees lots of track time. It's one thing if you want to do it for looks, but dumping tons of money for a BBK on a street car with street tires is throwing money straight in the garbage.

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

Completely false. You get a gain in leverage by having a larger diameter rotor. Surface area has nothing to do with that. Stopping power is calculated by the piston area of your calipers and coefficient of friction of the pads you are using. Rotor size, among other factors determines the thermal capacity of the braking system. If you want to learn how braking systems actually work, I suggest starting with http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers

Midnight02

iTrader: (8)

Precisely. Well stated 79_T/A.

ThoR294

iTrader: (6)

Glad I am reading this. So on a street car with say, nitto NT05 tires... my stock LS1 style brakes are good enough?

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

With a quality set of performance pads, stainless lines, a quality rotor and some fresh fluid, your brakes will be more than adequate for street, autocross, and light track day use.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I'll have to find it online, but there have been multiple magazine tests of stock brake systems for various cars with Stoptech and Brembo kits. The StopTech and Brembo kits always add to the stopping distance on street tires at hwy speeds. Why? Well, for one reason, weight. They do shine on like the third or fourth stop from say 130mph. Why? Well, heat dissipation to keep fade to a minimum. If you aren't boiling your brake fluid and disintegrating pads, then you'll be fine with a stock brake system with good pads and good fluid.

And one other thing: the EBD and ABS systems on these cars are crap. The Vette weighs 300lbs less and uses essentially the exact same brake setup and stops 40 feet sooner from 70. So putting better hardware on an antiquated system won't necessarily improve performance on the street...

ChrisUlrich

So then how do you suggest you fix the EBD and ABS systems?

So i'm reading that if I use the same tire for both these tests... the results would be almost identical.

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Bra...ird&option=All

vs

Stock

The tire would be the limiting factor? Then what seperates a 2011 Z06 Carbon Edition vs a 2010 Grand Sport C6? The Z06 totally kills it in stopping power.

I'm not being a smart ***. I really want to know. If you're saying the tire is the only limited factor (in this example), then cars with identical parts/tires except a brake kit would mean absolutely nothing.

79_T/A

iTrader: (1)

You don't fix the ABS. You deal with it, or remove it.

Yes, in the scenario you presented the wilwood kit will most likely not produce shorter stopping distances. The benefit from that kit would be if you road raced the car, and needed more thermal capacity for the brakes. They would be able to handle high speed stops lap after lap, whereas stock brakes might begin to fade away earlier.

As for the corvettes, a z06 carbon is dramatically different than the GS. Different calipers, different rotors, pads with a much higher friction coefficient, and most importantly the carbon has Michelin pilot sport cup tires, which are incredibly sticky - far beyond the Goodyear tires that came on the GS. Put the same tires on the GS, and I bet it will be very close in stopping distance to the carbon, but the carbon will have increased fade resistance due to the nature of carbon ceramic brakes.

Unless you do track events with your car, and need to do high speed threshold stops for 20 plus laps in a row, big brakes are not necessary. Properly set up stock brakes will haul your car down from 120 no problem, just as long as you don't expect them to do it 20 times in close succession. Most of the people that don't track their car who have added big brake kits and say it improved stopping distances most likely had really **** pads in the car, and upgraded to a better pad when converting. If they put a similar pad on stock brakes they would have probably been as happy, while spending less money.

If you have plans to track the car, upgrade. If you have the cash and show your car, then do it for looks. If you do plan on upgrading, then order that wilwood kit without the drilled rotors, they will crack. I cracked one almost in half at the track.