SilverSmoke

Okay, did the wholesale direct cross drilled/slotted rotors, C5 package up front, fbody out back with the axxis pads as the package deal. Also upgraded to SS lines, and changed the brake fluid to ATE Superblue.

Everything on, seperate to issue with LG bracket fitment, Looks clean, pads seated correctly, pistons pressed out again, and braked bled fully till the nice new blue fluid came through. Used about a 3/4's worth of a can. Did have issue bleeding with the vacuum pump in the rear calipers, bleeders would suck in air throught the side threads , whatever, resulted to me using a cup and clear hose, pressed on brakes till didn't see any bubbles and nice blue fluid comming through from rear to front per proceedure.

Read to go, pump brakes up before starting car, felt nice and firm, start the car, boom, pedal goes to floor,... huh? Drove around a bit doing some 30-5mph stops, then progressivly to 60-10mph, and a couple stomp on brakes to help bed a little the second go around after full cool down. Lots of black residue on rotor surface

Pedal has an even mush feel, no popping or inconsistent feel, it just feels like I'm stepping on a sponge till the pedal hits the floor. So whats up? Did I screw up, or does everything have to break in??

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Before you started the car, you pumped the brake pedal until it was firm, like normal. Then you started the car and the pedal went to the floor.

Are you sure you got all the air out of the system?

What kind and how much fluid did you use?
You changed all the brake lines?
TCS or non TCS?
No leaks anywhere?
The master cylinder NEVER ran dry?

OK ... this is a dumb question, but sometimes the obvious is what is the hardest to see. ... the bleeder screws for the calipers are on top, aren't they?

A while back, someone installed the calipers on the wrong side of the car and had the bleeders on the bottom. Never could get all the air out.

2001ws6ramair

sounds like there is air still in the system. double check all our line connections and make you dont have a leak. after that, rebleed the entire system.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

They can feel pretty mushy until the pads and metal wear in to each other. I've had cars where I installed fresh pads and could floor the pedal and not really seem to stop all that well. A few more stops (many more) and all was well. So, it could just need more break in time, or you may have air in it. I don't mess with those vacuum pumps, I just use a hose and bleed them "normally". I've had no issues doing it that way. I'd try a rebleed and then go (carefully) try to bed them in again.

SilverSmoke

NOT A DUMB QUESTION, NEVER KNEW THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE, BLEEDERS ON BOTTOM. IS IT DETRIMENTAL TO HAVE THEM ON TOP? I NEVER SAW ANY AIR COME OUT, AND IT ACTUALLY GRAVITY BLED PRETTY WELL TO THANKS!!!!!

SilverSmoke

Pedal feels way too easy to push down, it feels like the last inch or so is when the brakes seem to grab. When I did a brake/rotor swap on my jetta, the brakes were a little mush I guess, but I could hear the brakes working, and I think there was a bit more pressure comming back at me on the pedal from what I remember.

Just for my own knowledge, and lack thereof, what does air in the system feel like with brake pedal usage?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

The bleeders must point up, that way they can vent the air out of the calipers. If they are down, you'll never get the air out. (I couldn't tell if you said they actually were on the bottom or not, if they are, swap calipers).

With air in the system, the pedal will be mushy, it will get a slight resistance right before it hits the floor and won't stop well at all. Make sure the bleeders are on top and bleed it again. Let us know how it goes.

SilverSmoke

Do I need to bleed the rears again when I swap the calipers up front, or just bleed the front ones only?

SilverSmoke

Okay, did it, totally different feel! Thank you guys!

Still feel a little soft at the very top, but then it gets firmer as I push further down on the brake pedal, not sure if this is how it should feel now with larger brakes up front, ss lines, and ate superblue fluid?

I have a seperate issue now, which I did feel at first, but now that I have brakes back again, I can really feel it, everything on my car feel warped to hell!!! Please tell me this is normal during break in????

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

It's not normal. I'd follow the instructions for bedding the pads. Once you get the rotors hot a few times, they may relax and straighten out....or, they may not. I once got a set of stock rotors so hot that they felt warped. Once they cooled, there was no warp at all (when there had been a slight one before the "heat"). So, it can happen, but it's rare.

JamRWS6

I would think if your rotors are already warped they were not true and straight to begin with. I just replaced mine and they had absolutely no pulsation in them.

SilverSmoke

I guess so, sucks though after all this work. Car only has 20k on it, made sure there was no rust on the mounting surfaces, and if there was, took the wire brush to it.

The rotors are cross drilled and slotted for the look factor since I may and try to show my car every once in a while, maybe this plays a factor in break in?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Not usually. Unless you are building up pad material in the holes. If not, it is probably not anything more than a "quality" issue (or they were stored standing on edge) with the rotors. I'd say they were probably warped already.

SilverSmoke

Just got a hold of Brian at Wholesale direct and spoke to him of the issue. He mentioned I need to burn off all the zinc on the rotors. Said a bunch of hard stops to burn the plating off is needed, then the brakes should rub smoothly, with no vibration or shuddering. Guess I'll beat them up a bit and see what happens. If anything, at least they are warrantied for 1yr

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

I forgot they were coated. There could be a difference in the friction level between the coating and the underlying steel. It's worth a shot.

Xsta Z 28

iTrader: (2)

Yes they will feel "funny" untill the Zinc is completely worn off the rotor surface. Hopefully at that point you'l have good braking power.

Big OOOPS!!! on the bleeders . . . but we all learn.

SLPSS01

iTrader: (6)

I don't know if this applies for swapping calipers but just for the record you do need to bleed both front and rear if you install a line lock.
I just got done putting a line lock in tues night. The only line disconnected was from the MC (fronts) to the distribution block so we assumed you would only need to bleed the fronts. The rears ended up with more more air in them than the front's. What happens with the line inside the dist
block ? Just curious why there was so much more air in the rears.

SilverSmoke

Just an update for everyone so I can close this thread off from start to finish. The pads and rotors are almost broken in, even though only driven about 50-100miles so far. The pads and rotors have seemed to smoothed out a lot, no more pulsing, and warped feeling. I feel the rears still need a little breaking in yet as I feel some pulse in my butt, but I guess it will come with time.

May bleed my brakes one more time since everything has seemed to settle a little bit, trying to stiffen up the first 1" of brake pedal for more feel.

Thanks everyone!