need help tire rub that wasnt present before
06-04-2007, 11:19 AM
#1
need help tire rub that wasnt present before I had an off road incident and the left front tire (drivers side) took a hard impact. skidded off the road on a right hand turn into and embankment on the left hand side. Replaced the a-arms and k-member with UMI. Now I have the left front tire rub on hard corners. Is the strut hosed? how can I tell it's a Koni sa, or is the spring bent or something? The tire was stuffed back into the wheel well pretty good. lower a-arms were bent and the k-member was hosed so I just replaced the uppers as well.
How do I check/look for the problem?
How do I check/look for the problem?
06-05-2007, 07:20 AM
#6
A typical alignment either ...
1 - doesn't check for caster sweep
2 - the tech doesn't understand what the machine is telling him
3 - the tech has never heard of caster sweep, bump steer, roll center ...
Most alignment machines today are so dumbed down, the tech moves components till all the lights are green and he hears a beep. When you find a real alignment tech, he is worth the cashola.
A bent shock would limit wheel travel, but not deflect deflect travel. It's just a dampner. On a 4th gen, the wheel pivots on upper and lower A-Arms. A 4th gen uses a coil spring over a shock, not a strut.
On a 3rd gen, a platform that uses struts, a bent strut would deflect suspension travel because a strut is an integrated, load bearing suspension component.
So, it doesn't take much of a lateral shot to bend a knuckle. I have plenty of spares and sent my fair share to recycle heaven. And by your description, the knuckle took a helluva shot. So, one or both knuckles are probably bent.
Knuckles are only available through a dealer and cost about $175 each. Don't bother with used ones because chances are 50/50 a used one is bent as well. At least that has been my luck
I would also check for bearing play in the hub assembly.
1 - doesn't check for caster sweep
2 - the tech doesn't understand what the machine is telling him
3 - the tech has never heard of caster sweep, bump steer, roll center ...
Most alignment machines today are so dumbed down, the tech moves components till all the lights are green and he hears a beep. When you find a real alignment tech, he is worth the cashola.
A bent shock would limit wheel travel, but not deflect deflect travel. It's just a dampner. On a 4th gen, the wheel pivots on upper and lower A-Arms. A 4th gen uses a coil spring over a shock, not a strut.
On a 3rd gen, a platform that uses struts, a bent strut would deflect suspension travel because a strut is an integrated, load bearing suspension component.
So, it doesn't take much of a lateral shot to bend a knuckle. I have plenty of spares and sent my fair share to recycle heaven. And by your description, the knuckle took a helluva shot. So, one or both knuckles are probably bent.
Knuckles are only available through a dealer and cost about $175 each. Don't bother with used ones because chances are 50/50 a used one is bent as well. At least that has been my luck
I would also check for bearing play in the hub assembly.
06-05-2007, 09:53 AM
#7
I'll find an other shop! It ripped the knuckle off the passenger side. It was like a 45 degree angle sideways hit. Air bag didnt deploy so the under-carriage took the energy, it was a muddy embankment as well. Only crinkled one fender and the nose piece. Car looks good but these guys were not mechanics, they were just body men and the aligment shop they sent it to wouldn't give me a +4.5 caster, he said I didnt need it. They were supposed to be very good though, having experience with F1 cars.
I'm eating any cost for repair and parts at this point though, insurance wanted to total the car. How can I check the knuckle or can I? Do I need special equiptment?
I know nothing about front ends and parts. Where are the knuckles? I know there was one hanging off the passenger side when I looked at it with the estimator but I dont know where it was supposed to go..lol
So I should be looking at spindle parts? and I've been paranoid about my bearings for a while, how much are they and how to replace? Can I do it?
I'm eating any cost for repair and parts at this point though, insurance wanted to total the car. How can I check the knuckle or can I? Do I need special equiptment?
I know nothing about front ends and parts. Where are the knuckles? I know there was one hanging off the passenger side when I looked at it with the estimator but I dont know where it was supposed to go..lol
So I should be looking at spindle parts? and I've been paranoid about my bearings for a while, how much are they and how to replace? Can I do it?
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06-05-2007, 10:42 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
A 4th gen uses a coil spring over a shock, not a strut.
06-05-2007, 10:44 AM
#9
Most folks refer to the knuckle as a "spindle". Technically, you need a kingpin to use a spindle, like the old twin I-Beam Ford trucks.
The knuckle is connected to the upper and lower A-Arms via ball joints. And a caster sweep will reveal a bent knuckle.
Caster is how much "lay-back" the knuckle has from vertical. So as the knuckles are rotated through the steering motion, there is a set amount of off-set that is acceptable. If the knuckle is bent, this off-set is excessive.
A good indicator is if the machine says everything is aligned and the camber/caster bolts on either side don't match in the slots.
The hub assembly bolts into the knuckle. It has a speed sensor connector on the back.
Replacing all that stuff is really very easy with simple hand tools and an afternoon.
The knuckle is connected to the upper and lower A-Arms via ball joints. And a caster sweep will reveal a bent knuckle.
Caster is how much "lay-back" the knuckle has from vertical. So as the knuckles are rotated through the steering motion, there is a set amount of off-set that is acceptable. If the knuckle is bent, this off-set is excessive.
A good indicator is if the machine says everything is aligned and the camber/caster bolts on either side don't match in the slots.
The hub assembly bolts into the knuckle. It has a speed sensor connector on the back.
Replacing all that stuff is really very easy with simple hand tools and an afternoon.
06-05-2007, 10:47 AM
#10
Originally Posted by ssvegas
forgive my ignorance, but then why do we have strut tower braces? (not stock obviously)
STB on a 3rd gen is a strut tower brace
STB on a 4th gen is a shock tower brace.
Like I said earlier, most folks call everything on the front of a 4th gen a strut.
06-05-2007, 11:07 AM
#11
ok, it was the steering knuckle that was hanging off, and from what you just said.... look at this. when I first drove the car home I took a turn and heard all kinds of weird grinding rubbing noises. SO I go look at it underneath to see my new UMI stuff. Look at the picture. How do I check/measure the sweep?
I'm guessing that the body shop put it together it didnt line up so they mauled the slot. Then the aligment shop didnt even question it they just aligned it, wich they said was a bitch due to reverse threads ? and wouldnt do the 4.5 caster like I asked. I wanted -1.2 +4.5 and 0 toe. Which I want to back off the camber a little, its a little to quick to turn.
Does the new spindle come with bearings already in place and stuff? Plug and play?
accident happened while I taking a right hand 90. Didnt see the black ice until it was too late and was was way to hot going into it. Did the best I could to slow it down and brace for impact
got half way through the corner before losing it, hence my angle of impact. Went off at a 45 bounced off the bank and stuck in the ditch. Said some really bad words!!
Should I just replace both and call it good?
Ok got an appt at a shop recommended by my tuner,. Explained it all to him and what you said Mitch.
THx for all the help.
I'll have them check it and I'll do the work and then have them align it.
I'm guessing that the body shop put it together it didnt line up so they mauled the slot. Then the aligment shop didnt even question it they just aligned it, wich they said was a bitch due to reverse threads ? and wouldnt do the 4.5 caster like I asked. I wanted -1.2 +4.5 and 0 toe. Which I want to back off the camber a little, its a little to quick to turn.
Does the new spindle come with bearings already in place and stuff? Plug and play?
accident happened while I taking a right hand 90. Didnt see the black ice until it was too late and was was way to hot going into it. Did the best I could to slow it down and brace for impact
got half way through the corner before losing it, hence my angle of impact. Went off at a 45 bounced off the bank and stuck in the ditch. Said some really bad words!!Should I just replace both and call it good?
Ok got an appt at a shop recommended by my tuner,. Explained it all to him and what you said Mitch.
THx for all the help.
I'll have them check it and I'll do the work and then have them align it.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; 06-05-2007 at 11:51 AM.
06-05-2007, 03:19 PM
#12
Originally Posted by 99blancoSS
Does the new spindle come with bearings already in place and stuff? Plug and play?
Should I just replace both and call it good?
Should I just replace both and call it good?
Knuckles and hub assemblies sold seperately
Some assembly required.
No need to spend money unecessarily. Have them checked if you are unsure on how to do it or what to check.
Good luck.
And you are welcome. This place is supposed to be about sharing and educating, not about private conversations. Sharing problems, openly discussing issues and findings is what this community is all about. It's the reason I come here ... to learn.
06-05-2007, 05:05 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
I dunno ... they make good hand holds and towel racks. But on a 4th gen, they basically just add nose weight.
STB on a 3rd gen is a strut tower brace
STB on a 4th gen is a shock tower brace.
Like I said earlier, most folks call everything on the front of a 4th gen a strut.
STB on a 3rd gen is a strut tower brace
STB on a 4th gen is a shock tower brace.
Like I said earlier, most folks call everything on the front of a 4th gen a strut.
06-05-2007, 05:49 PM
#14
Chris,
I thought that mark in the A-Arm slot came from the bolt not being tightened? If they "enlarged" the slot, well that is just crazy since the A-Arms are adjustable, all they need to do is turn the rod end in or out. Also if right hand threads are reversed threads then I guess we use reversed threads
I thought that mark in the A-Arm slot came from the bolt not being tightened? If they "enlarged" the slot, well that is just crazy since the A-Arms are adjustable, all they need to do is turn the rod end in or out. Also if right hand threads are reversed threads then I guess we use reversed threads
06-05-2007, 06:21 PM
#15
Ryan I had no idea where that hole came from ( was speculating before) but from what Mitch described it seems like that might have been the case. I've been trying to get the power end figured out and havent looked at this for a while. I've had other things going on and havent been able to give it the proper attention it deserves until now. I suspect the shop wasnt as good as they think the are. I have no idea what they meant by reverse threads. It seems like maybe they didnt know what they were doing so much? The body shop put it together and they aligned it. I dont know but I got an appt at a different shop that my tuner recommended so I'll see what they say about it all.
I'll post what they find out. I hope they didnt hurt the UMI stuff anymore than that hole.
I'll post what they find out. I hope they didnt hurt the UMI stuff anymore than that hole.
06-05-2007, 08:04 PM
#16
OK ... I'm confused ...
I understood you to mean you had replaced all the wrecked suspension with UMI stuff. But the UMI stuff went through the wreck?
FWIW ... I can't see the image while at work.
But it looks like the mounting bolt made that divot.
I understood you to mean you had replaced all the wrecked suspension with UMI stuff. But the UMI stuff went through the wreck?
FWIW ... I can't see the image while at work.
But it looks like the mounting bolt made that divot.
06-06-2007, 03:17 PM
#17
I recked and replaced it all with UMI. The UMI was put on by the body shop at the time they repaired everthing else and then sent to an alignment shop and then I picked it up and drove it home.
Just got back from the new alignment place. All I can say is one swear after another so I'll spare you all. The details are as follows. The rub/grind was caused from a lose lower ball joint on the spindle. It then reamed the spindle. They tightened it up and put washers on it to take up the slack for now, I've got a new spindle on order it will be about $180'ish. The adjustment nuts were loose and that picture is only the beginning of the problem with that slot. It wasn then lengthened so that it's almost all the way out the side. In short it was totally butchered. At installation and then it looks like because they werent split sleves the alignment shop got lazy and did the damage to the k-memeber to make it less work to align. Thats what he said the other guy must have meant. It would be easier with split sleves to adjust.
So I have an apt for monday to leave it there and have them fix everything. He'll weld the k-memeber and stregnthen it where they hosed it. He's also going to dis-assemble the whole thing and start from scratch, start by making sure the k-member is centered correctly in the first place. He's gonna write it all up take pictures and I'm going back to the body shop and have them pay for all the repairs and re-alignment or have the insurance company handle it. I dont think I should have to pay for it should I? Isnt this a small claims court thing that my insurance company should handle for me?
I'm sooo not happy
Just got back from the new alignment place. All I can say is one swear after another so I'll spare you all. The details are as follows. The rub/grind was caused from a lose lower ball joint on the spindle. It then reamed the spindle. They tightened it up and put washers on it to take up the slack for now, I've got a new spindle on order it will be about $180'ish. The adjustment nuts were loose and that picture is only the beginning of the problem with that slot. It wasn then lengthened so that it's almost all the way out the side. In short it was totally butchered. At installation and then it looks like because they werent split sleves the alignment shop got lazy and did the damage to the k-memeber to make it less work to align. Thats what he said the other guy must have meant. It would be easier with split sleves to adjust.
So I have an apt for monday to leave it there and have them fix everything. He'll weld the k-memeber and stregnthen it where they hosed it. He's also going to dis-assemble the whole thing and start from scratch, start by making sure the k-member is centered correctly in the first place. He's gonna write it all up take pictures and I'm going back to the body shop and have them pay for all the repairs and re-alignment or have the insurance company handle it. I dont think I should have to pay for it should I? Isnt this a small claims court thing that my insurance company should handle for me?
I'm sooo not happy