CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Simple question here. I plan on purchasing new panhard bar and LCAs for my Camaro. She just has all the main bolt-ons, LTs, true duals, and MTI intake. I'll get an LS6 intake soon. That is all I want to do to it engine oriented. I however want to tweak the suspension the most as I think she goes fast enough but needs to corner better and plant the power a bit better.

These are the UMI's I am planning to get because some said these style LCA's are good where the other style ones (like the edelbrocks) can cause binding and banging on bumps at slow speeds... (is this true?)

http://www.umiperformance.com/201520?category_id=138

I also plan on never lowering the car, only replacing the springs and shocks with aftermarket down the road.

This is my daily driver, and is driven on the streets a lot, but do take it to AutoX 3 or so times a year. I however do not care about a stiff-*** ride, as I would not have bought a Camaro if I cared

So are these LCA's any good for my set-up? I do not know the pros and cons of this style LCA vs another. This will be my first suspension mod, everything else is stock.

Thanks!

87formy

I don't think that's what you want for your setup. Those can bind too because of the poly bushings. You don't want both ends to have poly bushings. You would be better off to go with a poly/rod poly/rubber or rod/rod for a handling application.

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

I did not know that, everyone told me that was a good set up.

(the PHB is still a good one right?)

Anyways, what are another type of LCA that is decently priced that works well? I do not have the knowledge of what type of LCA does **enter the blank here**

Any suggestions?

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

After researching even more for the past few hours, I've just got a few questions to ask.

This is mainly my DD. I drive it everyday, and drive it hard a few days of the week (usually weekend after work with buddies going to events or just on the roads.)

I am for sure going to go with poly/rod on the LCAs. Poly/poly is not too much of a good deal on those I understand.

However on the PHB, is a rod end necessary? I know there will be more binding, but in comparison to the stockers, it will help more, right? I know in comparison to the rod ended ones they are worse for performance, but in relation to the stock PHB won't it be better?

Also, rectangular LCAs are stronger than tubular, right?

Boodyrider

iTrader: (2)

No and no.
Tubular is stronger, and rod ends are worth the cost. You want rod ends on the panhard bar. The stock bar isn't 'weak' to the point that you'll notice performance improvements simply by replacing it with a stronger bar; you WILL notice improvements by replacing it with a bar that allows the panhard to move as it was made to move, without the price compromise of the rubber/poly ends. Go rod end.

The point of suspension is to CONTROL the movement of the car, not limit it with binding. Rod ends simply do this better than poly or rubber, or solid, for that matter.

Double rod ends are acceptable for the street these days, just remember to keep them lubed. Clean they will last a good long time, let 'em get dirt in the ends they will fail far more rapidly than poly or rubber. A tiny shot of grease at least once a month if not once a week keeps the crud out.

UMI makes excellent parts at a great price. I would not hesitate to buy any of their parts.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

PHB's don't bind like LCA's, but PHB's carry lateral loads, which deflect bushings. Also for the cost of an adjustable PHB vs. a non-adjustable one, I think it's a smart upgrade to go adjustable. Not all cars are lined up just right, and if you ever change ride height you'd want an adjustable PHB anyway. So, at minimum, I'd suggest this UMI package:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=18&ModelID=7

I'd personally run Poly/rod LCA's and a Double Adjustable PHB to minimize the lateral deflection even more, but without driving you insane. Rod-end only PHB's are not nearly as intrustive on noise as rod-end only LCA's since they are mounted much, much closer to you (and there are twice as many rod-ends mounted to the car body). You'd be looking @ $329 for those two parts together (not kit showing on the website, I have to process that order by hand).

Or, you can just go all the way to rod-end/chrome-moly everything for minimum deflection, maximum axle articulation, and lightest weight. Only potential downside here is some possible rod-end rattling, which it seems you don't much care about:
http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=18&ModelID=7

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Thanks a ton for the responses guys.

The noise would kind of bother me, hence why I did not really want to go rod in the first place. I have had two friends, both with WS6s have rod/rod PHB and poly/rod LCAs and they would bang at slower speeds while turning/going over bumps/potholes. This is my DD, and that would honestly **** me off. I know the good products wont do this, but even eventually they will after driving it everyday to to inevitable wear and tear.

It seems either staying stock for comfort or rod for performance is the way to go, with polys sucking at everything.

I was considering on having this mod the only suspension mod to my car for a long time, but considering some bilstein HD shocks would be just a bit more for cost, would buying new hd shocks all around help more for street performance that poly/rod lcas and phb? (I know they would do different things, but bang for buck consideration?)

If I do go this route I'd definitely go with the package same linked me to. But I just don;t want to replace the lcas and phb every other year due to driving this every day.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

Why are you doing this? An upgrade or to solve a problem?

You should do shocks first. I noticed shocks more than all other suspension mods combined.

02Z28LS1

iTrader: (2)

poly/poly good for drag racing, but it is the exact opposite of what you want for a car that is intended for handling.

upgrading your shocks will make more of a difference than LCA's & PHR, but if you're dead-set on going with a PHR and LCA's first, i'd definitely recommend the dual adjustable PHR (rod ends on both sides) and poly/rod LCA's, with the poly mounted to the body side and the rod ends on the rear axle.

this is the same setup i have, and i have no extra noise whatsoever. just make sure that you get the correct replacement bolts for the LCA's and don't re-use the stock bolts, because the stock bolts are slightly smaller than the inner diameter of the sleeves on the LCA's, and can cause rattling/clunking. the UMI D/A PHR re-uses the stock bolts, and i have no rattling/clanking at all with mine.

also, with the D/A PHR, you will get the least amount of deflection possible, and you will already be ready if you ever do change your mind about lowering the car.....you can simply re-adjust the rod ends to re-center the rear end after the car is lowered.

but if this is not a replacement for failed parts, and just an upgrade, i'd definitely do some quality shocks first.

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Yeah this is definitely just for upgrades. I never plan to lower it, the true duals would suck with a lowered vehicle.

I am now looking into some of the bilstein shocks (HD model) that are non adjustable etc, just to have an overall performance increase over stock as well as ride firmness. I'm assuming keeping the stock springs are fine since I am not lowering? Or (considering I have 19s) would new springs (not lowering springs) for a different than stock spring rate be needed? I kind of put aside the PHR and LCA idea I think.

I should make a new thread on this huh? Haha

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Also, I never plan on lowering my car, ever. I know this for sure. I also have dual 3 inch TDs and LT headers, no lowering for me even if I wanted to. Why would I still need a D/A PHB if I have stock height? I know one reason being that if my rear end is off centered already by a bit, but that doesn't seem to be too huge of a need. I'm also going to check tomorrow to see if it is off centered and/if by how much.

Also, what is the point of adjustable LCAs?

I'm now convinced on getting tubular poly/rod LCAs. I am however still debating on rod/rod or poly/rod PHB.

I plan on getting the HD model shocks (keeping stock springs) with this as I just one a overall street performance upgrade. I don't need to lower or have adjustable shocks/struts.

02Z28LS1

iTrader: (2)

adjustable LCA's will allow you to center the rear end from front/back, while the adjustable PHR will allow you to center the rear end from side/side.

for a regular street/auto-x/road course car, this particular adjustment is not typically necessary, unless you are lowered. however, this adjustability just so happens to be included when you use rod-ends.

the rod ends (even if they were not adjustable) are what is actually improving the handling performance. the metal-to-metal contact in the rod ends does not compress the way rubber or polyurethane does, so you get maximum deflection resistance. also, the rod ends will not "bind" when twisted the way rubber/poly bushings do, allowing for the rear end to stay planted in turns, instead of bouncing around as much (although some good shocks will be more benficial in this area).

on a car that is daily driven, regardless of whether it is used for other things or not, it is generally recommended to go with poly/rod units, with the poly side mounted to the body, and the rod end mounted to the rear axle. this will give you an increase in handling, while the poly bushing dampens excess noise, keeping it from entering the cabin area as much.

on the PHR, it is typically recommended to go with rod/rod, since there is less side-to-side load than there is front-to-rear. since the PHR is usually stressed less than LCA's, you may as well get the maximum benefit of the rod ends by going with dual rod ends. if installed properly (i.e., the bolts tightened REALLY good), you should not hear much more noise than before, if any more at all. and if you do hear more noise, it is less likely that the noise will come not from the rod ends themselves, but rather from vibrations that travel from the wheels, through the PHR, through the rod ends, and into the body. if you do get a little more of this type of noise, it is generally able to be easily drowned out by the engine/stereo.

as i mentioned, i don't notice any increase in noise from my rod/rod PHR.

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Thank you so much for your response. You are my hero. Hahaha.

So Poly/rod lcas, rod/rod PHB.

How long will the rod ends last if the car is driven every day, all the time? This is if I maintain them routinely.

I'm assuming the HD shocks/struts are good for a DD/street aggressive suspension with this set up. I hate my stock shocks with these larger wheels.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I agree that the shocks should be first, and not a place to skimp. Frankly, I don't find the "new" Bilstien HD to be very good at all, and the shocks are the single biggest thing GM screwed up on these cars by a mile.

I think you'd be impressed by the difference a correct set of shocks will make. Shocks are responsible for: Stability, ride quality, roll and pitch rate control (among other things). But I bet if you think it about it you'll find those are the things you have the biggest issues with.

I'd recommend taking the money you were going to use for these parts and the HD's, combining them and buying a set of Koni's. You'll have a better riding, more stable car. You cank play with damping settings to tune the ride and handling to your liking, and again when/if you add other parts, and you'll have all the shock control you'll ever need if you want to move to lowering springs in the future. And, you can lower the car about 1/2-3/4" with Koni's too, which some folks like.

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the response. I do not think I'm going to shell out the money for the Koni's. I just want a good street performance/autox that replaces my stock ones that are not adjustable.

I thought the HDs were a good choice, but my friend and now others here say they are not. I am not sure why, and would like to know what options are out there, and if/why the HDs would not work to well?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You get what you pay for, and shocks are the most important part on the suspension. Also the part that is the most messed up from GM. And be honest here.... do you not want do consider them because of the price, or because you don't understand what they do? Your headers and 19" wheels couldn't have been cheap, right?

HD's have never been performance shocks. And a few years ago they were changed to be "better", but the better ended up like "New" Coca-Cola and really isn't. The older ones were better, but still not up for what you want.

You mentioned autox, which is HUGELY shock intensive. You need to control the mass of the car. You need that on the street too, because the weight doesn't change on the road vs. on the course.

I think you are limiting yourself severely in not even considering or going Koni's.

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the information.

I was lucky enough as the only two mods the previous owner did to the car was put LT headers and true duals as well as the wheel/tire package.

I get that the HDs are no the best choice for what I want. They AutoX I'd only do twice or so a year since my friends go, otherwise it will be on the street daily driven 99.9 percent of the time.

What are some replacement shocks (not lowering the car ever, thus keeping stock springs) that are performance oriented that are non adjustables?

Thanks man, I appreciate all your information and putting up with my ignorance.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

There are very few really good shocks in the world. There are shocks, Tokico, KYB are most like the the range you are looking in now. Tokico's warranty procedure is a pain in the ***, but given the fact Bilstein messed up their stuff and even the screwy stuff is not available..... KYB makes 3 shocks for the car, all are very different, none are great. I'd have to say, at this point if you want cheap but workable and not adjustable the Tokico's are where I'd point you. They are $345 a set (not on my website yet, but we have them).

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

Thanks.

I saw these on your site:

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=20&ModelID=7

How are they?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Frankly, it doesn't matter.... They are not available either because of The Great Bilstein Backorder Fiasco of 2007 (and maybe 2008).

Not great, not my favorites, which is why we do our own Revalves when we can. Meaning when shocks are available, which they aren't.