sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

I need some advice on how my car is handling, I'll start with what has been done:

2001 SS 40K
17" ZR1s
Nitto 555s
energy suspension upper and lower CA bushings
moog end links, tie ends, and upper and lower ball joints
QA1 12 ways (r type coilover up front)
QA1 300lb springs up front and BMR in the rear
Hotchkis STB and PHB

Currently the alignment is at zero on the driver and slightly negative on the pass, it doesn't pull
also the ride height is at about 25 1/2" in the front and 26 1/4" in the rear
and I have each corner set at three on the QA1s, any more and they bounce too much for me

The issue is that when I am turning at in town speeds when I hit a bump or anything the car seems to wiggle a little bit, the biggest problem I have is that the handling just doesn't feel as confident. It takes bumps pretty well and it doesn't feel bad going over bumps, it just doesn't have that clean factory feel anymore and I want to be able to cut some corners! Any advice? Thanks for reading/commenting~Cullen

JD_AMG

Search for QA1s, they are really not made for handling, and will have the car be either too floaty or too jarring stiff.
You want a great handling car you can take turns in confidently you're going to want some Koni shocks, or revalved bilstiens.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Haha I knew the Konis/Sam thing was coming

Well I have searched, but what the funny part is that up until about the beginning 2006 or so all the threads seem okay with the QA1s

click

click

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JD_AMG

The people that are "ok" with QA1s are either drag racing, or never used any other shock before.
check these out:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ni#post7480995
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...oni#post818700
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...a1#post7190367

What exactly do you not like about your car's handling? Is is floaty/disconnected?

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

You say that, and yet you have a car with a shock problem. If a stock Z28 was the best handling car you'd ever driven in all of your driving experience, you'd say "they handle great on stock shocks". Once you drive a car on better shocks, you'd realize that the stock shocks are not valved very well at all for these cars. They have too much compression and very little rebound damping. The car handles like a wet towel with those shocks. But, if it's the "best thing you've ever driven", it's "good".

I explain this to say that everyone is limited by the scope of their experience to some degree or another. Just because something is aftermarket, expensive and adjustable, does not make it "the best thing ever". Now, Koni's are "expensive, aftermarket and adjustable" and many people who have used them do consider them to be among "the best things ever". You can move up to a Moton or a Penske shock if you'd like. You'll spend a serious amount of money ($3K+ for shocks). Koni's are not Motons or Penskes, but they are very good. Conversely, the QA1's are a drag shock. There is a huge difference between the design goals of a drag shock and the design goals of a handling shock. You can get a bit more of an outline of that here in this thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/643950-suspension-mods-real-world.html

Shocks really are the root of your problem. I can assure you of that. What you choose to do with that information is going to be up to you. It sounds like you're going to have a decision to make about what stays on the car and what goes as well as what your ultimate goals are for the car. Only you can answer these questions.

Good luck!

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

yeah that is pretty much nailing it on the head, floaty and disconnected nothing seems to be seriously out of whack though,
i do notice I go faster in a straight line than I did with old stock stuff

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Ding, ding, ding, ding!!!!!!!!!! We have a winner!

Floaty and disconnected are results you get when you lack rebound control. When you lack rebound control, the mass of the car moves around under, or just unchecked, and that promotes quicker weight transfer, which is why you see an apparent improvement in the car's launching (if I'm interpretting what you said correctly). This a prime example of why drag cars vs. other kind of cars that have to turn look so different. You wouldn't wear football pads to play baseball, right?

You need better damping control, something drag shocks purposely don't have much of.

JD_AMG

You know what, I just took a wild guess at that knowing you had drag shocks... Drag shocks = floaty/disconnected. Your rear end is probably really stiff too isnt it? Ive been in a QA1 SS before, it was a joke compared to when my car just had Konis on it.
Let me tell you about the first day I had my Konis.(suspension was otherwise stock) I pulled out of the mechanic's parking lot where there is road construction and a nice size dip where the old road used to be, you cannot avoid it. I took it at normal speed, nothing new, expecting my rear to thunk and cause my hatch to rattle. I hit it, and got a small *thud*. I was like o.k... maybe I just took it at a different angle than before right?... I put it in reverse, hit it again, then back in 1st and hit it again. Same thing, Im thinking WTF, nothing is rattling and all I have is just shocks??? Take it up the highway to notice the car feels like its glued to the road, lane changes, steering feel, everything in different, it felt like going from a line backer to a professional gymnast, this thing is on its toes. Take it on a exit ramp, one that turns all the way around to get to the road. I get on the ramp in 2nd, and roll onto the throttle, waiting for the rear end to start pushing out like it did stock, nope not this time. Again, im thinking WTF, just shocks??? Turn around, take the same ramp again, I nail it in 2nd wait to countersteer, but didnt need to, the car squatted, stayed glued to the road and tuned like a balance sports car. Came off the ramp, still very neutral, I got off the throttle and stabbed it again, trying to get it to get squirly, again, it squatted and stayed glued to the road. I love these things... Alright, time to step up the game and take it to the twisty backroad. Normally I wouldn't want to push the car past 6/10s on this road, it just wasn't stable enough, got twitchy and sloppy. This time, around 9/10ths and that car was glued to the road, all the sloppy body movement was gone and the only thing keeping me from pushing harder was I was already going 100+ on some turns, and didn't have the ***** to go faster. Honestly these things live up to their hype, and there is no exaduration, they WILL transform your car. They handle sloppy stock NOT because of the chassis,springs, swaybars, its the SHOCKS dude.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Does Koni make any coil over that has the same valving as the single adjustables?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Koni doens't make coil-overs... all you can do is put a Ground Control kit on (which is a hassle and requires modding the shock a little). Not knowing what ride height you are sitting at, or what you are looking for it's hard to give you options.

You could run stock springs, stock height. You could run stock springs, slightly lower by way of the Koni's lower perch. You could run various lowering springs that will handle much better than what you have (300 is basically stock), and give you a look.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

I appreciate all of the helpful information,
I had posted this up top but no biggie
the front is 25 1/2 and I want it to be more like 26 1/4-12
the rear is at 26 1/4 and would prefer that to be about 1/2 higher

so what I want is 26 1/2 up front and about 27 in the rear

the problem is that my car has a slight lean towards the passenger side,
the entire reason I bought the QA1s is because they were coil overs and I could adjust the ride height out to make the car sit more level.

I don't know anything about the Ground Control kit, that isn't air springs? if so, I don't think that is my answer. I have two half inch spacers that were for my QA1s, will the koni accept that same spacer(the one that goes in between the lower mount and the top of the lower control arm)?
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my questions.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Our lowering springs would put you about 26/26.75". You could do the stock springs, use the Koni lower perch and the isolator mod and end up about 26.5/27.25 (depending on the height out back on stock springs....

If you have 1/2 spacers, you could indeed run Koni's and set of my springs, which would put you right about the height you are looking for. Approximately 26.5 in front. And is certainly a more simple solution to coil-overs that require modification of the shock or some sort of airbag system. But I'd look around first, you might just find you like the height of our springs since they are already about 1/2" higher than what you are currently running. Plenty of pics.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Ahh well Ill do some thinking about it but I wouldn't mind trying the Konis out. Thanks for shedding some light on this.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Yes I think the rear end feels stiff a little bit. But that helps alot man, I know you spent some time typing it so I'm going to do some more thinking on what I want to do, but basically that is the kind of handling I am looking for, and most importantly I am tired of hearing my hatch rattle eveytime I hit a bump!!! Thanks again for the input its greatly appreciated.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

I ordered the Konis today everyone. 4/3s from Sam Strano, any comments? I'm going back to stock springs, might do the heater mod in the rear and put the spring on the lower perch as you suggested Sam. How does your ordering system work Sam?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

How did you order? Online, or by phone? If you did it online, all you aren't shown is freight, which is normally about $20-25 depending on location. If you ordered by phone, you would have been told that amount, and you'll get an invoice by e-mail and the shocks will ship most likely by tomorrow.

When you get them, you call me (with the shocks handy so you can look at them as we talk), and I run you through the details of installation and adjustment.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Oops I ordered online, does that mean they won't ship tomorrow?
I did read after ordering that the freight wasn't listed, I figured the shipping would be around 30 dollars or so as well, which is fine with me.
Thanks for the quick reply.
I guess my only major question is that I have a slight lean to the right on my car. After pulling the K member off and gusetting it. I checked for any bends in the control arms or other flaws. I put in all new bushings, ball joints, and outer tie ends. The lean equals out to about an inch or so. And like I mentioned before I have some spacers for the shocks. I guess my question is this: if I space one side of the car about 1 inch to get the car sitting level, what does this do to shock travel and will it cause the spring rates to be different from side to side?
With these new shocks, picking up the ride height up an overall 1 and half all the way around by going back to stock springs, what would you recommend for an aggressive street alignment?
I have an adj PHB as well as new nitto 555s on 17x9.5 ZR1s....think I can get this car handling correct again?

Looking forward to a nice smooth ride again, that I can take corners faster than 15 mph without feeling like I'm going to understeer, I'm just hoping these do the trick.

EDIT: Got the invoice, $23 in shipping!

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

So, what's the plan again? Stock springs with the Koni's, correct? That'd be how I start. Spacers and all that are band-aids. A slight difference in height side to side is not abnormal, but 1" seems a lot.

You want to run GM spec on toe, all the positive caster you can get and match on both sides. Run a bit of negative camber, about -.5 degrees.

sapper_daddy

iTrader: (12)

Yes stock springs w/ Konis. I realize that the spacers are a band aid and that is why I am questioning why my ride height is so off. Will the use of spacers make my suspension not work properly?

That is an affirmative on the alignment, I will set it up like that.

BubaGumpShrimp

iTrader: (1)

i have the same problem as the original poster and yes i have the qa1's. Too damn noisy and sloppy for me and makes me not want to drive my friggin car. I'll be talking to sam this spring(just going to slap on the stock rear shocks for now as they are banging around probably from no oil in them) and i'll probably be looking at the koni's.. Sam what rear springs would be good as i have over 150lbs of speaker gear and some tools in the back. As it is right now with the stock springs they sit about 1" lower due to all the extra weight back there. Wouldnt 1" drop springs sit even lower?