AutoX / Track Wheels
09-24-2009, 10:35 PM
#1
AutoX / Track Wheels I did a search and found lots of discussion about the best AutoX tires, but what about wheels? We see lots of drag wheel setups. What are you AutoX guys running? How about for track days?
Show us some pics of what you're running and tell us about it.
Show us some pics of what you're running and tell us about it.
09-24-2009, 11:00 PM
#2
Our Bogart road race wheels hands down. Lightest strongest wheels designed specifically for road course racing.
There may be discussions regarding other street designed applications, they won't hold a candle to the design of a true road race wheel.
09-25-2009, 08:03 AM
#3
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if you want to spend that much money, go ahead. otherwise, any stock 17x9 rim will be fine. the lightest tend to be ZR1s. unless youre really competitive, a few pounds wont matter. i have gray painted ZR1s with falken 615s, and bare aluminum unpainted ZR1s with take-off koni challenge hoosier slicks, both are for either track/autox.
maybe ill get some pics later. might have an autox this sunday if it doesnt rain.
maybe ill get some pics later. might have an autox this sunday if it doesnt rain.
09-25-2009, 10:22 AM
#4
Unsprung and rotational mass effects performance substantially. Those few lbs will react completely different than say removing a few lbs of static weight off the car.
Longer braking distances, handling performance...suspension control are only a part of what is impacted when using heavy parts…even down to something as simple as gas consumption.
When you compare the typical 20-23lb wheel to a road race wheel typically 14-17lbs, those "few" lbs make a huge difference. Not only will you have a better performing car, it will look 10X better... you have a greater chance of damaging a street wheel vs. a well built road race wheel. Street wheels are not typically built to handle the performance level of a road course racing.
Our wheels are not out of the reach of most, but they are not 500.00-1000.00 a set like the typical reproduction cast wheels would be…you do get what you pay for. …differences can be felt and seen.
I’m not saying our wheels are for everyone, but for the folks who think they are saving money yet go and spend tons on other parts they may be overlooking areas that drastically impact performance. Using reproduction or inexpensive wheels, in the end, they end up looking like every other car out there.
Longer braking distances, handling performance...suspension control are only a part of what is impacted when using heavy parts…even down to something as simple as gas consumption.
When you compare the typical 20-23lb wheel to a road race wheel typically 14-17lbs, those "few" lbs make a huge difference. Not only will you have a better performing car, it will look 10X better... you have a greater chance of damaging a street wheel vs. a well built road race wheel. Street wheels are not typically built to handle the performance level of a road course racing.
Our wheels are not out of the reach of most, but they are not 500.00-1000.00 a set like the typical reproduction cast wheels would be…you do get what you pay for. …differences can be felt and seen.
I’m not saying our wheels are for everyone, but for the folks who think they are saving money yet go and spend tons on other parts they may be overlooking areas that drastically impact performance. Using reproduction or inexpensive wheels, in the end, they end up looking like every other car out there.
09-25-2009, 11:49 AM
#5
Let's not argue - I'm interested in seeing all different types of options, from the OEM wheels to high dollar stuff.
Question about the Bogarts, though. Being a true "road race wheel" does that make them any less suitable to a daily driver wheel?
Question about the Bogarts, though. Being a true "road race wheel" does that make them any less suitable to a daily driver wheel?
09-25-2009, 12:19 PM
#6
Saturn,
No argument here. I'm stating facts that many people overlook. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, its aggregating to see someone post essentially a lighter wheel has no benefits nor worth the value.
Regarding your question, a street wheel cannot hold up like a road race specific wheel which is designed for higher stress loads...a road race wheel will outshine a standard street wheel any day...street or track.
As a wide generalization, if you want to put wheels on a scale from strength and durability. From lowest to highest...drag wheels, street/strip wheels, street wheels, road race wheels.
No argument here. I'm stating facts that many people overlook. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, its aggregating to see someone post essentially a lighter wheel has no benefits nor worth the value.
Regarding your question, a street wheel cannot hold up like a road race specific wheel which is designed for higher stress loads...a road race wheel will outshine a standard street wheel any day...street or track.
As a wide generalization, if you want to put wheels on a scale from strength and durability. From lowest to highest...drag wheels, street/strip wheels, street wheels, road race wheels.
09-25-2009, 04:27 PM
#7
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That is straight from your webpage. I have seriously considered getting a light weight wheel for road racing, but all of them say, not intended for street use. So, I ended up getting a second set of wheels, that will hold up to the road course and street, if I so choose to drive the car to the track on the track intended tires.
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09-25-2009, 05:37 PM
#9
Saturn,
No argument here. I'm stating facts that many people overlook. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, its aggregating to see someone post essentially a lighter wheel has no benefits nor worth the value.
Regarding your question, a street wheel cannot hold up like a road race specific wheel which is designed for higher stress loads...a road race wheel will outshine a standard street wheel any day...street or track.
As a wide generalization, if you want to put wheels on a scale from strength and durability. From lowest to highest...drag wheels, street/strip wheels, street wheels, road race wheels.
No argument here. I'm stating facts that many people overlook. Though everyone is entitled to their own opinion, its aggregating to see someone post essentially a lighter wheel has no benefits nor worth the value.
Regarding your question, a street wheel cannot hold up like a road race specific wheel which is designed for higher stress loads...a road race wheel will outshine a standard street wheel any day...street or track.
As a wide generalization, if you want to put wheels on a scale from strength and durability. From lowest to highest...drag wheels, street/strip wheels, street wheels, road race wheels.
Everything is a tradeoff between weight, durability, and price. That's why I want to see lots of different solutions. Now, when someone shows me a 10lb 17x9.5" wheel that looks good, is race ready, durable enough for pot hole filled roads, and costs under $100, well sign me up. I'm not holding my breath.
09-25-2009, 05:40 PM
#10
Bogart Racing Wheels are for racing only! They are not built or intended for street use!
That is straight from your webpage. I have seriously considered getting a light weight wheel for road racing, but all of them say, not intended for street use. So, I ended up getting a second set of wheels, that will hold up to the road course and street, if I so choose to drive the car to the track on the track intended tires.
That is straight from your webpage. I have seriously considered getting a light weight wheel for road racing, but all of them say, not intended for street use. So, I ended up getting a second set of wheels, that will hold up to the road course and street, if I so choose to drive the car to the track on the track intended tires.
I would firmly state as any destructive test performed, our road race wheels will show more durable to the typical "street" wheel produced today.
You must fail to realize that street driving stress from street driving is nothing near the stress level seen on road racing courses. Not only is the stress level higher for road racing, it is of longer duration.
If I'm telling you that a street wheel will not live as long as a road race wheel, I'm not sure where your confusion lies? Do you think that street driving is more stressful? I'm rather confused with your comments.
Niceguyyy01, I posted a picture above.
09-25-2009, 05:55 PM
#11
Saturn,
A pothole can/will take out any wheel. No wheel is impervious to failure with obstacles in the road. I'm still scratching my head with you guys...I'm not sure if you guys are actually auto-x racers because if you were, you wouldn't be thinking that the stress seen on a road course is less than what you would see on the street.
I'm not going to go into depth regarding engineering topics but there are ways to create components stronger, more durable yet lighter...but it’s not inexpensive. The way to build something inexpensive right off the bat is cast products...which by nature are going to be very heavy. The material alone has its downfalls…let alone different types of casting and materials within the casting used. This doesn’t make the cast wheel stronger or able to withstand a pothole better than a better engineered product because it’s heavier.
I really have nothing else to add into the post. I've offered solutions with information backing my statements. I'm also not just a salesman; I think that being a professional Engineer, my typed words should mean a bit more than the average Joe typing on here. Obviously it’s falling on deaf-ears. My signature and background is listed not to pound my chest, it’s to let folks understand I’m not a kid talking without full understanding within a discussion.
Hopefully someone else can come up with a solution that meets whatever criteria you're looking for. I've tried to address your concerns, based on your comments, we cannot meet your needs.
A pothole can/will take out any wheel. No wheel is impervious to failure with obstacles in the road. I'm still scratching my head with you guys...I'm not sure if you guys are actually auto-x racers because if you were, you wouldn't be thinking that the stress seen on a road course is less than what you would see on the street.
I'm not going to go into depth regarding engineering topics but there are ways to create components stronger, more durable yet lighter...but it’s not inexpensive. The way to build something inexpensive right off the bat is cast products...which by nature are going to be very heavy. The material alone has its downfalls…let alone different types of casting and materials within the casting used. This doesn’t make the cast wheel stronger or able to withstand a pothole better than a better engineered product because it’s heavier.
I really have nothing else to add into the post. I've offered solutions with information backing my statements. I'm also not just a salesman; I think that being a professional Engineer, my typed words should mean a bit more than the average Joe typing on here. Obviously it’s falling on deaf-ears. My signature and background is listed not to pound my chest, it’s to let folks understand I’m not a kid talking without full understanding within a discussion.
Hopefully someone else can come up with a solution that meets whatever criteria you're looking for. I've tried to address your concerns, based on your comments, we cannot meet your needs.
Last edited by SJM Manufacturing Inc; 09-25-2009 at 06:08 PM.
10-06-2009, 09:23 PM
#17
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I stand firm with my statement. You are correct; we do build the wheels for racing. We build road racing wheels, street/strip wheels and drag wheels.
I would firmly state as any destructive test performed, our road race wheels will show more durable to the typical "street" wheel produced today.
You must fail to realize that street driving stress from street driving is nothing near the stress level seen on road racing courses. Not only is the stress level higher for road racing, it is of longer duration.
If I'm telling you that a street wheel will not live as long as a road race wheel, I'm not sure where your confusion lies? Do you think that street driving is more stressful? I'm rather confused with your comments.
Niceguyyy01, I posted a picture above.
I would firmly state as any destructive test performed, our road race wheels will show more durable to the typical "street" wheel produced today.
You must fail to realize that street driving stress from street driving is nothing near the stress level seen on road racing courses. Not only is the stress level higher for road racing, it is of longer duration.
If I'm telling you that a street wheel will not live as long as a road race wheel, I'm not sure where your confusion lies? Do you think that street driving is more stressful? I'm rather confused with your comments.
Niceguyyy01, I posted a picture above.
So, if I buy these wheels, and drive them on the street, you'll fully warranty them if I hit a pothole and bend a wheel? Or if I drive them in the salt and snow and the finish totally goes to ****?
If not, then just give me the reason why it's stated on your page that the wheels are for off road use only.
10-06-2009, 10:07 PM
#18
How are you rather confused with my statements? What exactly are you confused about? Pretty sure my statement is about as simple as they can be. All I'm stating is, why is it stated for "Off road use only"? Why is that stated on your web page? I'm just thinking if that's the case, then the proper measures haven't been taken to make the wheels DOT approved. Am I stating that the wheels are weaker then the "average joe" wheels...hell no, that would be moronic. But, there has to be a reason that is posted on your page, as well as every other page selling those wheels.
So, if I buy these wheels, and drive them on the street, you'll fully warranty them if I hit a pothole and bend a wheel? Or if I drive them in the salt and snow and the finish totally goes to ****?
If not, then just give me the reason why it's stated on your page that the wheels are for off road use only.
So, if I buy these wheels, and drive them on the street, you'll fully warranty them if I hit a pothole and bend a wheel? Or if I drive them in the salt and snow and the finish totally goes to ****?
If not, then just give me the reason why it's stated on your page that the wheels are for off road use only.
You're not purchasing sears tools whereas you think you can just warranty a wheel because you happen to hit a serious road hazard. If you want rock-climbing wheels, we could build them, something you’re probably not going to want to use for the street or other performance areas as they would be built for rock climbing and you probably could go through those potholes and not bend a wheel as you would with others.
Second of all you apparently do not understand the properties of aluminum and what corrosive materials like salt and such will do to them. I can't believe you'd ever consider taking a high-end wheel even if it's coated (which completely changes the luster of material...a good reason why you rarely see a manufacture coat them) and use them for winter or sub-par road usage.
We build racing products, not replica or average street cast aluminum products. Casting is a cost effective method that is generally durable but not considered optimally designed for performance. Racing products are for racing encompassing baha, sprint, road racing, drag racing etc. They are highly specific products designed to optimize needs for that criteria. Street wheels in general are just that, as a vague general statement, to help the car get from place to place able to withstand winter, summer, spring fall conditions. That won't compare to a product that is designed to take far greater stress levels than an extreme race-specific wheel is designed for.
Now if we're talking everyday general usage driving through crap weather, dirt roads etc...I think you'd be a fool to use a high-end high dollar wheel, not because you're going to damage them because they won’t take the stress, but it’s because you don't want to abuse a product you care about and you want it to continue looking good.
…That would be like purchasing a Lamborghini and saying it’s not good enough of a product because you can't drive it in the snow!!
10-07-2009, 08:53 AM
#19
I would kill for these rims!!
