Lets build a mid-engine Trans Am - need advice
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
I'm building a driver, not a beauty queen. This is a home built car and both the V7 and the Tractorri are big budget, shop built cars. 2 very different approaches.
Last edited by JasonWW; Oct 15, 2008 at 11:26 AM.
Since I nominate you for "king of the crazy ideas", I'll throw this one out there.
What about running your V8 longtinudinally (not transverse), but use a Corvette 6-speed transaxle. But don't use a torque tube / driveshaft, bolt the transmission directly to the motor. You might investigate whether or not a faceplate and input shaft from a regular LS1 T56 can be mounted on to the front of a Corvette transaxle. I don't know, I've never worked on a C5 T56, but in theory it might work.
What about running your V8 longtinudinally (not transverse), but use a Corvette 6-speed transaxle. But don't use a torque tube / driveshaft, bolt the transmission directly to the motor. You might investigate whether or not a faceplate and input shaft from a regular LS1 T56 can be mounted on to the front of a Corvette transaxle. I don't know, I've never worked on a C5 T56, but in theory it might work.
On The Tree
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From: North Ridgeville (suburbs of cleveland) Ohio
that would work if you had a different input shaft put into the trans, made a custom linkage to shift the trans, and bellhousing to go from the lsx block to the trans. This would all require a lot of machines and design software
Take a look at the C5 6-speed below.
It looks to me like it *might* be possible to remove the front plate on it, and bolt on an F-body plate. That means you could bolt it up to a bellhousing, use an F-body clutch and hydraulics, etc. Everything on the back side of the trans would need to be C5 (the transaxle).
You may have to change something like the input shaft, I don't know. But it's a thought, while we're throwing around weird ideas.
To me, the center section of the transmission looks identical to the f-body center section, and I think the internals are the same. Only difference may be the input shaft and the face plate.
It looks to me like it *might* be possible to remove the front plate on it, and bolt on an F-body plate. That means you could bolt it up to a bellhousing, use an F-body clutch and hydraulics, etc. Everything on the back side of the trans would need to be C5 (the transaxle).
You may have to change something like the input shaft, I don't know. But it's a thought, while we're throwing around weird ideas.
To me, the center section of the transmission looks identical to the f-body center section, and I think the internals are the same. Only difference may be the input shaft and the face plate.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
I've already considered it, but there's no advantage in it. If you want the engine in the backseat area the drive output has to be right at the engine. So you'd have to either mount it sideways, Fiero style, or use a transfer case and put the diff next to the oil pan like the Caddy and Trailblazer SS. They seem to use a slim differential. I need to research it more. With this setup I could use my current T56, clutch, etc... and just modify the oil pan and convert the shifter to a cable type linkage.
If I put the output right behind the engine, like with a G50, I'd HAVE to change the rear wheel location. That's going to be pretty tricky to do.
If I put the output right behind the engine, like with a G50, I'd HAVE to change the rear wheel location. That's going to be pretty tricky to do.
Last edited by JasonWW; Oct 15, 2008 at 09:08 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
There's a lot of new drivetrain parts out there the last few years and people haven't really started utilizing them yet. The new G6 trans and the Trailblazer setup came out in 06 I believe. I'm sure were going to these parts in a lot of mid engine kitcars and such. It's just a matter of time.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
It turns out the Caddy driveshaft is on the passenger side, as you can see from the earlier pics, but the Trailblazer SS's is on the drivers side. How strange. The transfer cases are not the same unit just rotated like I was thinking. They are shaped differently.
I wonder if the diff next the oil pan is the same unit?
Just like these these trucks are AWD, I could turn the setup around and make a mid engine AWD car. That's pretty cool, but I'm not a big AWD guy.
At least with the TB SS unit I could have the transfer case right in front of the passenger seat where it would not be in my way.
I wonder if the diff next the oil pan is the same unit?
Just like these these trucks are AWD, I could turn the setup around and make a mid engine AWD car. That's pretty cool, but I'm not a big AWD guy.
At least with the TB SS unit I could have the transfer case right in front of the passenger seat where it would not be in my way.
Last edited by JasonWW; Oct 16, 2008 at 01:52 AM.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
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i know a guy that has a gearbox that will bolt upto a LS engine and sit east west!
he currently has a simliar setup in the back of his racing mini! yeah thats right a LS in the back of a MINI!!!
Cheer
Chris.
Are the G6 boxes manual or auto??
he currently has a simliar setup in the back of his racing mini! yeah thats right a LS in the back of a MINI!!!
Cheer
Chris.
Are the G6 boxes manual or auto??
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
Do you know what he's using?
What a lot of folks forget is that the more weight and gripier tires you have, the more stress you put on the drivetrain. You could run a fairly light duty trans in a mini. Even a Fiero is lighter than my car plus they run narrower tires. I would like to take some weight off my car, but I doubt I could. Plus I'd like to run some 345 tires. It's going to be pretty stressed even with the Caddy or TB SS setup since half of the load goes through their front diff. and half through the rear. So if put all my power to just it's front diff., I may break it the first time I dump the clutch.
Even a front wheel drive setup from a big Caddy car might not hold up when you add all the extra grip.
Last edited by JasonWW; Oct 16, 2008 at 05:15 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
Every transfer case I've ever seen ran the driveshaft on the passenger side. When you turn it around it's going to interfere with the drivers seat. My *** is going to be right close to the ground, so I didn't consider it viable.
Now that I've seen the TB SS's unit, I could actually do this and have the driveshaft on the other side. Here are it's pics:
V-drive, huh? I remember a vehicle they did with one vaguely. Was it the van that did wheelstands?
Transfer cases need to be engaged or disengaged depending on whether you want 4x4 mode or not. It looks like a V-drive is a simpler "always on" type of transfer case. Is that correct?
Now that I've seen the TB SS's unit, I could actually do this and have the driveshaft on the other side. Here are it's pics:
Here is another Idea, strait out of "Monster Garage". Use a v-drive that is used for an inboard boat. It basically acts like a transfer case to turn the power 180 degrees back the the rear of the car. If you clocked it you could use it with an offset differencial in the rear and you have your mid or rear engine car.
Transfer cases need to be engaged or disengaged depending on whether you want 4x4 mode or not. It looks like a V-drive is a simpler "always on" type of transfer case. Is that correct?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
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From: Hou. TX.
This is the diff I was planning to use with my IRS project. It is a Ford 8.8 all aluminum unit used in T-birds, Cougars, Mark 8's and a few years of Mustang Cobra. It's very strong and cheap. You can get an assembled unit new from Ford Racing with 3.73 and Trac-loc for $600. Used cobra units go for about $300.
I'm wondering it can fit in front of the engine so the halfshaft is right in front of the balancer or if I'd have to run it through the oil pan.
Transfer cases need to be engaged or disengaged depending on whether you want 4x4 mode or not. It looks like a V-drive is a simpler "always on" type of transfer case. Is that correct?
I'm wondering it can fit in front of the engine so the halfshaft is right in front of the balancer or if I'd have to run it through the oil pan.
Transfer cases need to be engaged or disengaged depending on whether you want 4x4 mode or not. It looks like a V-drive is a simpler "always on" type of transfer case. Is that correct?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Wheelbase looks too long. Not that good looking to me.
I don't know what you mean.
What is the car your refering to?
What is the car your refering to?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
I think this is as far forward as I can go with the engine.
I'm probably going to have to wait until I get the donor car and a block to use for mock up to know for sure whether it will fit or not.
I'm probably going to have to wait until I get the donor car and a block to use for mock up to know for sure whether it will fit or not.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,814
Likes: 3
From: Hou. TX.
Here's the engine in the altered wheelbase car.
That looks like it could work and the half shaft would clear the balancer. I'd need to put the alternator up top so the driveshaft can get by.
Hmmm, all wheel drive you say?
That looks like it could work and the half shaft would clear the balancer. I'd need to put the alternator up top so the driveshaft can get by.
Hmmm, all wheel drive you say?
Last edited by JasonWW; Oct 16, 2008 at 10:23 AM.