blacktransam

iTrader: (13)

you beleive.. its not fact..


thank you..

what is fact.. is in the power range he'll be in.. he is not in danger of breaking the crank.. that is tried and proven repeatedly..

wht97ws6ta

Perhaps the fact that i work in a machine shop and build motors that most of you guys could only dream about might have a little to do with why i say the things i do. Man i just got done building a LS2 that was in a twin turboed goat that was putting down only 750 HP to the tires. Guess what, he was running a stock crank. The bearings were beat out of it from detonation and the stock crank was bent. Only a couple of thousandths but it was bent. So we put a callies piece in it. Not sayin it bent because of the power. It was most likely from the detonation. But the whole point im getting at is if the tunes off and you happen to detonate it, then a forged piece will take the pain alot longer than any cast crank. Im not trying to make anyone spend money that doesnt need to be spent. And i dont base none of anything you see type up here off of research from the internet. Its all REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE from building various engines myself. The internet is what gets alot of people in trouble when it comes to making good reliable HP. So dont assume im just some jackass thats up here trying to look like Im knowledgeable about engines because ive sat on my *** and surfed the web for years. To many times have i seen new customers come in with mail order stuff in a greasy box in a bunch of pieces that bolts dont hold together. They think there getting a bargain, only to find out that they spent much more money than they would have with good parts. Im glad the stock crank works for you guys, but that doesnt mean they are indestructable. I said go forged for the insurance. I nowhere said a stock LS crank was weak. But GM didnt intend for these things to see a 1000+ HP. No cast crank was. Thats the point im trying to get acrossed.

CodeRed2000SS

well ddnspider, does it make u feel all warm and fuzzy to have your car on the cover of a book? does it make you just melt when u know ur going to have your car in a magazine? and do you get turned on when you see your sticky on this forum? (instead of the stickyness that is on your own your keyboard) i hope it does because i could honestly care less.

this guy started this thread because he was out to save some money, and as i stated above i was looking out for the durability of his engine. Not to state that you can hold 1000 hp on a stock crank just because a guy with unlimited funds did it. If this guy is driving is car everyday, then dont he need something that he KNOWS will hold up? i know i sure would. But as this goes on and on, in the end the guy will probably do what he wants anyway. no matter how we bitch and fuss about it.















































ps: you have a little stcky spot on the letters F and U

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

It doesnt matter what parts you put in the car, if youre detonating the crap out of the motor, NO MOTOR will hold together indefinitely.The argument in question is "what will hold together when someone cant tune". The argument is assuming the car is run correctly, can you run a stock ls1 crankshaft.You've only proved that you associate with people who do not know how to tune a car.

CodeRed2000SS....thanks for proving my point

wht97ws6ta

[QUOTE=ddnspider;10917942]It doesnt matter what parts you put in the car, if youre detonating the crap out of the motor, NO MOTOR will hold together indefinitely.The argument in question is "what will hold together when someone cant tune". The argument is assuming the car is run correctly, can you run a stock ls1 crankshaft.You've only proved that you associate with people who do not know how to tune a car.

Ok evidently i havent gone into enough detail about this whole situation. So i guess ill have to compare what a nodular iron or all iron cranks Vs forged steel cranks actually do, for you. Bare with me here. Ill start off by giving you a idea of what their tensil strength is. Granted these numbers prolly werent actually tested on a crankshaft but is still a comparison by the material they are made of. Cast iron < 85,000 PSI, nodular iron < 95,000, cast steel < 115,000, (4340 forged steel < 155,000). What alot of people dont know is cast cranks just dont have the elasticity that a forged steel crank offers. Therefore limiting the amount of power that can be made reliably. Not sayin that at a givin power level cast will just haul off and fail. What im sayin is it will cause other failures related to it over a period of time. Let me give you an example: say you took a in this case a nodular iron crank and put it in a press with a dail indicator on it. Then you deformed it by .020 held it there for 10 seconds and released it and recorded the results. Then do the same thing with a forged steel crank. I promise you 9.9 out of ten times the forged will come much closer to returning back to zero. Ok with that said, if cast is known for flexing and moving around that much, then exactly what do you think will happen to your bearings, and timing chain? Thats right they will fail over a shorter period of time as compared to their lifespan with a forged steel piece. Thats why i said in the last post that the crank was bent and the bearings were shot. I did fail to mention that the timing chain was insanely sloppy,in my last post. Granted the detonation didnt help matters, but i have good reason to believe that overtime the cast crank wont take the beating from loads of torque even if the engine is spot on. And no im not sayin if you have a stock crank and making 700 hp that its gonna break at anygiven moment. Thats not remotely close to my point. If you were to build 2 engines that would make 650 Hp, both the same other than the crank and made a series of a hundred pulls on an engine dyno from 2500 to 6500 rpm and tore them completely down and inspected both, i think you would be shocked at the amount of wear increase that the cast crank induced in the whole shortblock assm. And NO ONE said one thing about an indefinite motor but you. I believe i stated before that anything with a beginning has a ending. Im not in this to win a pissing contest. Im just trying to provide you with the facts. Hopefully ive explained this well enough for most to grasp the concept.

02 BLK WS6

iTrader: (11)

If you have the money for a forged crank, why not go 383? If you stay 346, stock is plenty for builds under 1000 hp if built properly.

ZohSix

RPM

JL ws-6

iTrader: (50)

Having been around these cars enough, the stock crank is a capable piece that can support a good amount of power. I think it will support about as much RPM as a stock ignition system will, and as much as a 4 bolt setup will.

That being said, if you don't need 6 bolt heads to keep the heads down, and if you don't need an aftermarket computer/distributor type setup becuse of the RPM that the car turns, you probably can run the stock crank with no problems, unless you need the stroke to get the cubic inches in that case the aftermarket cranks are a better bet.


Could a 7500 rpm n/a motor make more power with a lighter knife-edged crank, I'm 100% sure that it can, is it worth the $, depends on what you're trying to do. If you're after a stock CI record of some sort, or are running an nhra class that requires stock CI or the like, yes it's probably worth it.

For a street setup that's gonna make 700 hp and you're gonna run a supercharger, turbo or nitrous where there's no rules how you get to the power #, then no I wouldn't bother I'd use a stock crank in that and not be too concerned about it.

Again, anything that you are gonna drive around probably doesn't need 6 bolt heads to keep them down, and probably doesn't need 10,000 rpm potential.

wht97ws6ta

Ok..... A stock crank in a LS motor is not steel. Its NODULAR CAST IRON. You guys sure know alot about these motors to be around them so much

JL ws-6

iTrader: (50)

I never said it was any type or material, just stated what it has been reliable in.

STAR

iTrader: (1)

Thread hijack

How about discussing main bearing clearances?

BackinBlack02SS

iTrader: (7)

Good rule of thumb is about .001 per inch of journal diameter plus .0005 if you're going to hammer on it.

wht97ws6ta

I wasnt refering to your post. I was refering to the one above that said if your crank sounds like a bell then its steel.

wht97ws6ta

That was the idea until i made a recomendation that evidently engaged a war. I stated what clearances should be in my first reply.

CodeRed2000SS

.............

CodeRed2000SS

no sir, the guys that tune my car know what they are doing.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

LOL,if you say so.

wht97ws6ta

Ok its ran for two years with no problems, been hosed down with nitrous a good bit of that time, and just ran a 9.95 @ 136 MPH in the quarter. Theres noting wrong with the tune or the man that tuned it.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

So was detonating the other motor just for fun?
This thread is amazingly stupid.Ill take my real world experience and the comments/suggestions from Dozens of companies/sponsors over 2 guys in North Carolina.Thanks

CodeRed2000SS

who said my other motor was blown up? i dont remember saying anything about that. My motor that came out of my car is sitting in the floor of my shop right now. Show me where i said that

9.95 with a crappy 1.47 60', hmm i wonder if your piece of **** can do that and drive home witht he a/c blowing.... OH WAIT A MINUTE i forgot, your car is from florida, where real street cars race in the street. Im sorry your majesty.


ddnspider u are a real jackass. you sit up here and think u know everything there is to know about these cars cause you READ IT. Honestly, i dont give a damn what you know or what you have read. Im pretty sure you have NEVER turned a wrench on your own car. You just go out and pay somebody to do it for you. Therefore I am WAY out of your league.

Now im not saying that i have never learned anything on this site, because I have. LS1TECH has taught me alot. But I also learn things form outside of the internet. (from being around cars all my life)

But go on with your STOCK FORGED 383 crank and tell everyone on this site about how good a stock one is. When you dont have one in your OWN car.

P.S. Im pretty sure these two guys from NC, can take this blue car and DRAG YOUR *** all the way down the 1/4. (With the a/c blowin'.....)