Single fluid engines.
Thread Starter
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Single fluid engines. was thinking about all the problems people have with over heating their engines when they start to boost them or are doing road courses and stuff. then i heard that oil coolers make a BIG impact on the tem of the engine, and often more than larger water radiators.
soooo why dont we just run oil cooled engines?? it works on bike and plane engines so why not in a car? surley the if a engine make X BTU's of heat then the 'cooling system', whatever that might be, needs to remove X BTU's of heat.
i know the old 911's where air cooled but wouldn't having the engine in the front help?
so what are your opinions??
Cheers
Chris.
soooo why dont we just run oil cooled engines?? it works on bike and plane engines so why not in a car? surley the if a engine make X BTU's of heat then the 'cooling system', whatever that might be, needs to remove X BTU's of heat.
i know the old 911's where air cooled but wouldn't having the engine in the front help?
so what are your opinions??
Cheers
Chris.
8 Second Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 371
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From: Savannah, TN
The obvious is cylinder head cooling. Planes and bikes are air cooled and oil cooled on top of that deutz does it with diesl but it would be a good idea and a pricey oil change
was thinking about all the problems people have with over heating their engines when they start to boost them or are doing road courses and stuff. then i heard that oil coolers make a BIG impact on the tem of the engine, and often more than larger water radiators.
soooo why dont we just run oil cooled engines?? it works on bike and plane engines so why not in a car? surley the if a engine make X BTU's of heat then the 'cooling system', whatever that might be, needs to remove X BTU's of heat.
i know the old 911's where air cooled but wouldn't having the engine in the front help?
so what are your opinions??
Cheers
Chris.
soooo why dont we just run oil cooled engines?? it works on bike and plane engines so why not in a car? surley the if a engine make X BTU's of heat then the 'cooling system', whatever that might be, needs to remove X BTU's of heat.
i know the old 911's where air cooled but wouldn't having the engine in the front help?
so what are your opinions??
Cheers
Chris.
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The other issue is emissions. Porsche went for years with air/oil cooled engines but had to switch to water cooled just to get the engines emissions compliant. A air/oil cooled engine just cannot be "clean" enough to pass modern emissions testing. And once Porsche went water cooled, the H.P. also went up as the emissions came down.
Thread Starter
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The other issue is emissions. Porsche went for years with air/oil cooled engines but had to switch to water cooled just to get the engines emissions compliant. A air/oil cooled engine just cannot be "clean" enough to pass modern emissions testing. And once Porsche went water cooled, the H.P. also went up as the emissions came down.
anyone know the thermal propertise of oil?? whats its spesific heat capacity? just wondering if you could run a 'oil jaket' and use the oil to remove the ehat rather than water. obvioulsly you would need an oil cooler the size of a rad and a pretty hefty oil pump (thinking like a external multi stage one) but could it be done?
Cheers chaps
Chris.
not sure if this is why but i would suspect that water being far less viscous means that pumping losses are much less than they would be in a comparable oil based system, and also the water probably transfers heat more rapidly, so the change in temperature of the water across the water jackets and then across the radiator is greater. that means more heat removed per unit of area, smaller radiator in this case than an oil system, and more heat rejection by the cylinders.
Also bear in mind that the boiling point of water decreases as altitude increases. That combined with the fact that a water cooling system could easily weigh as much or more than cooling fins makes air cooling attractive for planes.
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water is has been used in prop planes....what do you think the P51 ran?? 
also water has a specific heat capacity of 4200J/KG/K. i have no idea what oil is. anyone know?
as said before it has been used on bike engines and works. as for emissions, ditch the CATS and run Lean Burn heads that will operate at AFR of up to 20.0-1 (done by for on the CVH engine in the 80's but then scrapped as CATs came in).
dose anyone know why heat would effect emissions?
Chris.
also water has a specific heat capacity of 4200J/KG/K. i have no idea what oil is. anyone know?
as said before it has been used on bike engines and works. as for emissions, ditch the CATS and run Lean Burn heads that will operate at AFR of up to 20.0-1 (done by for on the CVH engine in the 80's but then scrapped as CATs came in).
dose anyone know why heat would effect emissions?
Chris.
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I'm not sure, I drive a diesel I have no emmisions equipment 
But old airplanes ran ethylene glycol. Basically an alcohol coolant, not sure if there was any water mixed with it.
But old airplanes ran ethylene glycol. Basically an alcohol coolant, not sure if there was any water mixed with it. 
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Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Copenhagen
thats what pressurised cooling is for.... just like on your car!
i think water will disperse heat better then oil
on the emissions side, water will make the engine run cooler then an air cooled engine, which means that the air that is inside the engine is more dense and will burn the fuel more efficiently and more of it, this is why Porsche started to get higher hp numbers out of their engines.
on the emissions side, water will make the engine run cooler then an air cooled engine, which means that the air that is inside the engine is more dense and will burn the fuel more efficiently and more of it, this is why Porsche started to get higher hp numbers out of their engines.
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The problems with plain water are
-Corrosion protection (isnt any)
-Freezing
-Overheating protection (protects incase something goes wrong)
^^^ boiling point for water is about 100degrees and the ls1's operating temperature is 210. so i do not see how you will not boil the water.
Last edited by elias_799; Apr 3, 2009 at 10:57 PM.
^^^^ i actually used water in one of my cars so i could just get home because the rad was leaking. when i got home and opened the reservoir the only thing came out is a **** load of steam.
Water alone has a higher boiling point than coolant/water mix.
As stated above, coolant is used as an antifreeze and as a corrosion inhibitor.
I believe nascar just runs straight water in their cooling systems.
And yes, added pressure greatly increases boiling point.
pv=nrt
As stated above, coolant is used as an antifreeze and as a corrosion inhibitor.
I believe nascar just runs straight water in their cooling systems.
And yes, added pressure greatly increases boiling point.
pv=nrt
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