Exhaust System? X-Pipe vs. Terminator Box?
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Exhaust System? X-Pipe vs. Terminator Box? I am trying to build a zero lost exhaust system.
I have a close to 900hp Natural Aspirated engine that was designed to run with open headers. I would like to build full exhaust system out the rear of the car with a minimum lost of HP/TQ for an max effort occasional weekend street cruise.
I have read about a Pressure Wave Termination Box (Resonator Box) in May 2005 issues of Popular Hot Rodding magazine. It said that a Terminator Box located after the headers where both exhaust pipes going into would act like the end of the exhaust system. From there back into two tail pipes and two mufflers for a zero HP/TQ lost.
Has anyone ever built one or experimented with a Termination Box and how would it compare to a X-pipe or a well designed Y pipe?
Any recommendation or ideas would be appreciated.
Bob
I have a close to 900hp Natural Aspirated engine that was designed to run with open headers. I would like to build full exhaust system out the rear of the car with a minimum lost of HP/TQ for an max effort occasional weekend street cruise.
I have read about a Pressure Wave Termination Box (Resonator Box) in May 2005 issues of Popular Hot Rodding magazine. It said that a Terminator Box located after the headers where both exhaust pipes going into would act like the end of the exhaust system. From there back into two tail pipes and two mufflers for a zero HP/TQ lost.
Has anyone ever built one or experimented with a Termination Box and how would it compare to a X-pipe or a well designed Y pipe?
Any recommendation or ideas would be appreciated.
Bob
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Similar idea but if I remember right the pro chamber is much to small to really work like a pressure wave terminator box.
The idea is basically the reverse of "if you make a big enough intake plenum the engine will effectively act like you're running IR intake and the plenum will have no tuning effect on the engine, it will be strictly up to the runners." In this case "if you make a big enough chamber (and it helps if the inlet to the chamber is designed specifically to prevent reversion), the exhaust ahead of that chamber will act like a set of open headers/collectors of that set length and what is after the box as long as it's a big enough hole to let the volume of exhaust out won't have any effect on that tuning.
It's not about flow, but about pressure wave tuning, reflections and the related harmonic resonances.
To answer the original question, the real answer is well, it depends (doesn't it always?)... if the open header/collector setup that you're running now is _really_ the optimum setup for what you're doing then yes, it will work if designed correctly. OTOH, if that setup could gain something from the additional harmonic tuning of an X or H... well then... I think that the only real answer you're going to get is if you build all 3 and compare them in the actual intended use for the car (dyno tuning/testing can be helpful in predicting what will work, but the fact is that nothing actually beats trying it IRL, so unless you're building the car for dyno racing, or for that matter, all the theory in the world proving that ____ is the right answer doesn't _really_ mean anything unless the be all and end all for the setup is bench racing).
The idea is basically the reverse of "if you make a big enough intake plenum the engine will effectively act like you're running IR intake and the plenum will have no tuning effect on the engine, it will be strictly up to the runners." In this case "if you make a big enough chamber (and it helps if the inlet to the chamber is designed specifically to prevent reversion), the exhaust ahead of that chamber will act like a set of open headers/collectors of that set length and what is after the box as long as it's a big enough hole to let the volume of exhaust out won't have any effect on that tuning.
It's not about flow, but about pressure wave tuning, reflections and the related harmonic resonances.
To answer the original question, the real answer is well, it depends (doesn't it always?)... if the open header/collector setup that you're running now is _really_ the optimum setup for what you're doing then yes, it will work if designed correctly. OTOH, if that setup could gain something from the additional harmonic tuning of an X or H... well then... I think that the only real answer you're going to get is if you build all 3 and compare them in the actual intended use for the car (dyno tuning/testing can be helpful in predicting what will work, but the fact is that nothing actually beats trying it IRL, so unless you're building the car for dyno racing, or for that matter, all the theory in the world proving that ____ is the right answer doesn't _really_ mean anything unless the be all and end all for the setup is bench racing).
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Similar idea but if I remember right the pro chamber is much to small to really work like a pressure wave terminator box.
The idea is basically the reverse of "if you make a big enough intake plenum the engine will effectively act like you're running IR intake and the plenum will have no tuning effect on the engine, it will be strictly up to the runners." In this case "if you make a big enough chamber (and it helps if the inlet to the chamber is designed specifically to prevent reversion), the exhaust ahead of that chamber will act like a set of open headers/collectors of that set length and what is after the box as long as it's a big enough hole to let the volume of exhaust out won't have any effect on that tuning.
It's not about flow, but about pressure wave tuning, reflections and the related harmonic resonances.
To answer the original question, the real answer is well, it depends (doesn't it always?)... if the open header/collector setup that you're running now is _really_ the optimum setup for what you're doing then yes, it will work if designed correctly. OTOH, if that setup could gain something from the additional harmonic tuning of an X or H... well then... I think that the only real answer you're going to get is if you build all 3 and compare them in the actual intended use for the car (dyno tuning/testing can be helpful in predicting what will work, but the fact is that nothing actually beats trying it IRL, so unless you're building the car for dyno racing, or for that matter, all the theory in the world proving that ____ is the right answer doesn't _really_ mean anything unless the be all and end all for the setup is bench racing).
The idea is basically the reverse of "if you make a big enough intake plenum the engine will effectively act like you're running IR intake and the plenum will have no tuning effect on the engine, it will be strictly up to the runners." In this case "if you make a big enough chamber (and it helps if the inlet to the chamber is designed specifically to prevent reversion), the exhaust ahead of that chamber will act like a set of open headers/collectors of that set length and what is after the box as long as it's a big enough hole to let the volume of exhaust out won't have any effect on that tuning.
It's not about flow, but about pressure wave tuning, reflections and the related harmonic resonances.
To answer the original question, the real answer is well, it depends (doesn't it always?)... if the open header/collector setup that you're running now is _really_ the optimum setup for what you're doing then yes, it will work if designed correctly. OTOH, if that setup could gain something from the additional harmonic tuning of an X or H... well then... I think that the only real answer you're going to get is if you build all 3 and compare them in the actual intended use for the car (dyno tuning/testing can be helpful in predicting what will work, but the fact is that nothing actually beats trying it IRL, so unless you're building the car for dyno racing, or for that matter, all the theory in the world proving that ____ is the right answer doesn't _really_ mean anything unless the be all and end all for the setup is bench racing).
I do have header that were custom built for my engine specs. It was designed to run open headers and will when racing. I wanted to build a exhaust the street that went over the rear to the rear bumper and while doing so I thought I try to build something that had minumal HP/TQ loss.
I ended up building my own y-pipe system. It start out with 4" off the collectors then into a high velocity Y collector then into a 4" x 7" oval pipe that splits into two 4" to a pair of Borla mufflers then pair of tips.
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Great answer and thanks for the response.
I do have header that were custom built for my engine specs. It was designed to run open headers and will when racing. I wanted to build a exhaust the street that went over the rear to the rear bumper and while doing so I thought I try to build something that had minumal HP/TQ loss.
I ended up building my own y-pipe system. It start out with 4" off the collectors then into a high velocity Y collector then into a 4" x 7" oval pipe that splits into two 4" to a pair of Borla mufflers then pair of tips.
I do have header that were custom built for my engine specs. It was designed to run open headers and will when racing. I wanted to build a exhaust the street that went over the rear to the rear bumper and while doing so I thought I try to build something that had minumal HP/TQ loss.
I ended up building my own y-pipe system. It start out with 4" off the collectors then into a high velocity Y collector then into a 4" x 7" oval pipe that splits into two 4" to a pair of Borla mufflers then pair of tips.
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From: Norn Iron
Have a search here on Termination Boxes. I know there was some a while back
http://www.gofastnews.com/showthread...mination-Boxes
http://www.gofastnews.com/showthread...mination-Boxes
Last edited by stevieturbo; Apr 3, 2010 at 06:16 AM. Reason: link sorted
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