500whp 5.3 N/A possible?
11-01-2017, 10:34 AM
#61
May I ask what the purpose of this project is? I not trying to clog it up, just curious. You have owned a Dyno for years it seems and I would think you would exactly what is needed to make this happen. Heads would be the biggest part of this puzzle I would think. The big question here I would think would be weather to go with cathedral or rectangle. I would not think that anything with high enough flow numbers up high would be worth a crap down low for 5.3. That would really narrow the engine's window of usefulness. That's why I'm curious of the purpose of this.
Also my engine building and dyno experience mainly consists of 3 and 4 valve ford motors and ford zetec and duratec 4 cylinders.
Other than people bringing their ls1 in for dyno runs I really dont have much experience with ls1's
All the basic concepts of engines are the same but I really just wanted info from people with real world ls1 experience.
The only reason I built the car with an ls based motor was to **** off all my Ford friends.
11-01-2017, 11:00 PM
#62
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ITB Manifold is definitely the way to go along with LLSR, if you can run 12.5:1 Compression (don't know what fuel you are planning) that will help.
As stated your biggest Challenge is getting the airflow through a limited valve size with the small Bore. If you are willing to destroke a LS1 Bore size to 5.3 liters that would open Up many more Head options and greater likelihood of success.
6.0 Bore with 4.8 Crank even better!
Lightening up your Clutch/Flywheel, Ring & Pinion if possible along with doing Micro Blue & REM Polish Of R & P along with trans gears will help considerably reducing parasitic Losses along with Mechman Alternator, Electric Water Pump, removing Power steering, and AC and short belts. Also light wheels & tires.
DARTH is right there with Cam Specs IMO,
You will need To Peak ~ 7500 RPM. A Dry Sump Oil System is probably
Worth ~15 HP add a Hot Hone and very thin rings .9mm,.9mm,2.0.
Gain another ~10 ish. It's all about Ring seal Now at this point and you Have spent ~$20K. Ask me how I Know LOL. Is it worth it? Only youCan say.
My 396" made 690 Crankshaft HP @ 7100-7300 RPM (1.75 HP/CI) I think You need to make 1.85 HP/CI = 5.3L = 323CI X 1.85 = 598 and
Reduce Driveline losses below ~90, I am shooting to reduce mine
Below 70.
Tony Mamo has some small Bore 5.3 heads, 205CC That flow ~295+ CFM @ .600", 295 X 2.2 = 649 Theoritical HP Potential in a nearly perfect set up, might Get to your goal with MAMOFIED MSD Intake, Much more likely with
Panteras ITB.
Good Luck
As stated your biggest Challenge is getting the airflow through a limited valve size with the small Bore. If you are willing to destroke a LS1 Bore size to 5.3 liters that would open Up many more Head options and greater likelihood of success.
6.0 Bore with 4.8 Crank even better!
Lightening up your Clutch/Flywheel, Ring & Pinion if possible along with doing Micro Blue & REM Polish Of R & P along with trans gears will help considerably reducing parasitic Losses along with Mechman Alternator, Electric Water Pump, removing Power steering, and AC and short belts. Also light wheels & tires.
DARTH is right there with Cam Specs IMO,
You will need To Peak ~ 7500 RPM. A Dry Sump Oil System is probably
Worth ~15 HP add a Hot Hone and very thin rings .9mm,.9mm,2.0.
Gain another ~10 ish. It's all about Ring seal Now at this point and you Have spent ~$20K. Ask me how I Know LOL. Is it worth it? Only youCan say.
My 396" made 690 Crankshaft HP @ 7100-7300 RPM (1.75 HP/CI) I think You need to make 1.85 HP/CI = 5.3L = 323CI X 1.85 = 598 and
Reduce Driveline losses below ~90, I am shooting to reduce mine
Below 70.
Tony Mamo has some small Bore 5.3 heads, 205CC That flow ~295+ CFM @ .600", 295 X 2.2 = 649 Theoritical HP Potential in a nearly perfect set up, might Get to your goal with MAMOFIED MSD Intake, Much more likely with
Panteras ITB.
Good Luck
Last edited by NAVYBLUE210; 11-01-2017 at 11:19 PM.
11-03-2017, 09:05 AM
#63
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Ford Boss 302 = 620 HP Hi TS, I worked for the Ford's in the late 1960 with our team winning the race in France, 1,2,3.
Today, I cast an ITB intake for the 4.6/5.4 (50mm) and run many ECO Boost engines in the desert.
I worked with Ford SRL, Michael Levin, creating a "camless" Zetec. (1995)
Thus my "Ford"' case for 620HP (1972 F-5000) :
I had a 302 Tunnel Port block, dry deck, with 69 Boss 302 heads. (2.23" intake valve)
This was a racing engine used for my F-5000 Lotus 72, a Dry Sump Oil System, Timed Lucas Mark I Fuel Injection with 2 3/16" ITB's.
The 4" bore TP block/3" Boss 302 crankshaft was right out of Ford XE. (Free)
Fred Carrillo made me some "H" beam rods 5.315" with BBC .990" pins. (cost $100.00 each)
The Boss heads were "worked" by milling away the exhaust port flange to allow a round tube to be placed in the now round port then furnace braised into place.
The 180 exhaust was then an easy install using "slippies".
The Bench Dyno test found an engine that would not operate correctly UNDER 5400 RPM, then at 5500RPM IT "LIT".
The max RPM was 9500 with 620 HP measured.
I would like to help with your project (TS), providing a set of my ITB's at Cost ?
Lance
Today, I cast an ITB intake for the 4.6/5.4 (50mm) and run many ECO Boost engines in the desert.
I worked with Ford SRL, Michael Levin, creating a "camless" Zetec. (1995)
Thus my "Ford"' case for 620HP (1972 F-5000) :
I had a 302 Tunnel Port block, dry deck, with 69 Boss 302 heads. (2.23" intake valve)
This was a racing engine used for my F-5000 Lotus 72, a Dry Sump Oil System, Timed Lucas Mark I Fuel Injection with 2 3/16" ITB's.
The 4" bore TP block/3" Boss 302 crankshaft was right out of Ford XE. (Free)
Fred Carrillo made me some "H" beam rods 5.315" with BBC .990" pins. (cost $100.00 each)
The Boss heads were "worked" by milling away the exhaust port flange to allow a round tube to be placed in the now round port then furnace braised into place.
The 180 exhaust was then an easy install using "slippies".
The Bench Dyno test found an engine that would not operate correctly UNDER 5400 RPM, then at 5500RPM IT "LIT".
The max RPM was 9500 with 620 HP measured.
I would like to help with your project (TS), providing a set of my ITB's at Cost ?
Lance
11-03-2017, 10:12 AM
#64
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Just for accuracies sake, the 1966 1,2,3, Finish at Le Mans was with
GT40 MK IIs which used 427" Big Blocks.
The last 2 wins, 68 & 69 were With the 302 small block, and used
Gurney-Weslake Heads, Not Boss or Tunnel Port, I believe.
ITBs definitely the way to go and at cost is a very generous offer.
GT40 MK IIs which used 427" Big Blocks.
The last 2 wins, 68 & 69 were With the 302 small block, and used
Gurney-Weslake Heads, Not Boss or Tunnel Port, I believe.
ITBs definitely the way to go and at cost is a very generous offer.
11-03-2017, 10:33 AM
#65
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LSx + Weslake Design Hi All, yes I agree.
Dan Gurney's shop was five miles from my shop, he installed my EFI on his Race Transporter bus. Gray Wheeler used my EFI on his Super Vee.
John Collins "Granny" shop was ten miles away AND Roy Butfoy (ZF GT 40) expert worked with me in our shop for twenty years. (good days)
I drew (Solid Works) a LS Head with the same design as the Weslake.
That design included the butterflies and injector bosses.
I would like to make the patterns if there was an interest?
Lance
Dan Gurney's shop was five miles from my shop, he installed my EFI on his Race Transporter bus. Gray Wheeler used my EFI on his Super Vee.
John Collins "Granny" shop was ten miles away AND Roy Butfoy (ZF GT 40) expert worked with me in our shop for twenty years. (good days)
I drew (Solid Works) a LS Head with the same design as the Weslake.
That design included the butterflies and injector bosses.
I would like to make the patterns if there was an interest?
Lance
11-07-2017, 03:32 PM
#66
I decided to do everything in steps to see what makes gains and what doesn't.
I bought a set of PRC 5.3 heads to try out. I cc'ed the combustion chambers and they ended up being 63cc. I checked my PTV clearance and I am able to use a .040 headgasket. This combination gets my compression ratio back to are around the stock 9.5, which sucks.
If my head gaskets come in tomorrow I am going to try and get it back together and get some numbers by friday. Im hoping to see 20 or so hp from the heads but who knows?
Also My collectors came in today. Im gonna machine some head flanges this weekend and try to start on my new headers and exhaust next week.
I am then gonna source and new 5.3 block and start building the bottom end.
I bought a set of PRC 5.3 heads to try out. I cc'ed the combustion chambers and they ended up being 63cc. I checked my PTV clearance and I am able to use a .040 headgasket. This combination gets my compression ratio back to are around the stock 9.5, which sucks.
If my head gaskets come in tomorrow I am going to try and get it back together and get some numbers by friday. Im hoping to see 20 or so hp from the heads but who knows?
Also My collectors came in today. Im gonna machine some head flanges this weekend and try to start on my new headers and exhaust next week.
I am then gonna source and new 5.3 block and start building the bottom end.
11-08-2017, 08:42 AM
#67
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Collector Size Hi TS, I would like to know the tube size of your new collectors.
I would like to see a picture of the inside of your new collectors.
What would your new exhaust tube size be and the pipe legnth ?
Lance
I would like to see a picture of the inside of your new collectors.
What would your new exhaust tube size be and the pipe legnth ?
Lance
11-11-2017, 03:56 PM
#69
Well i had a pretty interesting day today on the dyno.
I swapped the new heads on and after a little tuning i made 417 whp uncorrected. My previous uncorrected number was 378whp. Pretty awesome gains for just ported heads.
I then decided to swap out the 93 octane for e85. After some tuning I made 425 uncorrected. The e85 picked up a ton of midrange power and a decent amount up top. The tune needs more work but i had to go home early.
old heads vs new on 93 octane uncorrected
e85 vs 93
lets not get into dyno debate. I posted everything uncorrected.
I swapped the new heads on and after a little tuning i made 417 whp uncorrected. My previous uncorrected number was 378whp. Pretty awesome gains for just ported heads.
I then decided to swap out the 93 octane for e85. After some tuning I made 425 uncorrected. The e85 picked up a ton of midrange power and a decent amount up top. The tune needs more work but i had to go home early.
old heads vs new on 93 octane uncorrected
e85 vs 93
lets not get into dyno debate. I posted everything uncorrected.
11-11-2017, 08:09 PM
#70
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No dyno debate. Almost looks like it hadn’t peaked yet. Not bad for heads only!
11-14-2017, 11:59 AM
#75
I get what it means, but I'm asking why. Those conditions are standardized for the sake of comparisons. This instance is probably not as dramatic, but it's like running your car at a 1/4 mile track in Denver where the DA is 6000ft, changing the heads, and then running it in Florida where it's 1900ft. You can't attribute the change to the heads because the weather conditions that affect power changed so much.
11-14-2017, 12:23 PM
#76
I get what it means, but I'm asking why. Those conditions are standardized for the sake of comparisons. This instance is probably not as dramatic, but it's like running your car at a 1/4 mile track in Denver where the DA is 6000ft, changing the heads, and then running it in Florida where it's 1900ft. You can't attribute the change to the heads because the weather conditions that affect power changed so much.
That is why I decided to post everything uncorrected bc that is exactly what it made.
All the runs i posted this time were with in a weeks window of time. And the temperature and humidity were about the same. So I 100% believe it is a valid comparison.
11-17-2017, 06:46 PM
#79
TECH Senior Member
Whoa! "Cruddus Maximus"....
11-20-2017, 06:58 AM
#80
You've started here's a good baseline.......wonder why you guys didn't show or say this one: Work it out from there N/a baseline.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/pro...k-build-part2/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/pro...-build-part-3/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/pro...k-build-part2/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/pro...-build-part-3/
Last edited by Patron; 11-20-2017 at 07:22 AM.