chuntington101

F1 cars did the same before the FIA band them!

Chris

Old SStroker

Yeah, F1 copied Jim Hall's Chapparral sucker car (2J). If you noticed, it even took F1 a while to adapt the stuff Hall was doing on the 2A thru 2F early in the 60s. I'm so glad he's restored them for us.

We've come a long way. An modern F1 could run on the ceiling at about any veloclity > 100 mph.

HPP your Go 387 airfoil with +lift @ 0 AOA does simulate some road cars. By raking the car a tad you can get a slight negative AOA to get rid of the lift. Look at the stance on all the fast (200+) F-bodies that have run at B'ville. That's not just to get the nose in the salt.

When SStrokerAce raced Soap Box Derby, we did a car that had symmetrical NACA airfoil shapes. In the plan view it was almost exact, but in the side view the trailing edges never met. They were different so the sections weren't quite round. I forget the numbers, but they were low-speed ones that fit the car dims.

chuntington101

on the ducing the used radiator air out the top of the engine cover< welll it will produce downforce!

you see you are moving the air about 2 feet up! this means you are applying force to the air! if you push something it pushes you back so it will actually push the car onto the ground! admittedly not a great deal but it will help! this is why racers spend a lot of time and effort on the used air behind the rad and why they duct it up and out the engine bay!

Chris.

HPP

Only if you go with a C5-R style set up and have the under hood area sealed. Otherwise you're more or less just venting positive underhood pressure.

Sparetire

AFAIK the Mclaren F1 used fans like the Can-Am cars.

Im glad Motor Sports has gotten so so much safer over the last 30 years, but you have to admit it would be cool to see just some cras could do if not so hobbled by regs. We have so many examples now of road cars that are street legal making more power than their racing brethren.

chuntington101

yeah can you imagine the speeds of F1 cars with out the regs????

but then whats the point of racing with out a level playing field?? optherwise the biggest budget wins everytime!

Chris.

Old SStroker

Interestingly enough, perhaps the biggest budget in F1 does NOT win. Why not, Toyota?

Sparetire

GO MINARDI!!!!!!!

LOL. But true, its not supposed to be about the budget. I wonder though about some regs, weather they hurt the big budget guys or the small budget guys more.

Whats going to be fun though is the GT racing world. The Gallardo is being groomed into a GT car by DTM over in Germany, the 997 GT3 should be out and about soon, the new Aston DB-9 looks like its going to be a contender, the Vettes already here, The F430 is here, and even Maserati is looking to get into it. Very very cool to see that kind of variety around a road course. I need to get cable.

chuntington101

thats why the regs are there! to try and flatern the playingfield! but ifyou removed them that ts all down to budget! and dont fogrt the budget helps get the driver and the enginers!!!

i think GT is looking better and better! there are more and more road going racs going into it so hopefully we will see some interesting road stouff coming out to!

Chris.

Old SStroker

So why doesn't Toyota win?

chuntington101

coz there are rules in place to 'limit' the cars making its more competative for lower budget teams! like i said before!

also toyota doesn't (yet) have any perticualy good drivers! also their enginers are all new to the game! whereas the "big" names have the drivers and the engiers!

Chris.

PS, pelase dont make me repeat myself yet again!

GainesvilleLS1

iTrader: (1)

I think I can squeeze my LS1 into this....

1921 Rumpler: "The shape was similar to a falling drop of water; its favourable drag coefficient cD=0.28 was equalled again only in the most recent car types".

Old SStroker

YGBSM!

No offense intended, of course.

By the lower (than Toyota) budget teams you mean Renault, Williams, Ferrari, BMW and Honda, right? Evidently Renault must really have a low budget this year.

Chris, I won't make you do anything you don't want to do, believe me.

Perhaps your interpretation of the effects of money on racing does not exactly reflect what has happened in the world of motorsports. A team cannot buy a championship with money, as evidenced by Toyota, among others, but neither do underfunded teams win championships or even win a race or two. IOW, maximum money doesn't guarantee wins nor a championship, but a serious lack of money (compared to the big spenders) does guarantee few if any wins and no chance of a championship in the high-end professional motorsports arena.

One way to look at the "level-the-playing-field" rules is an attempt by the sanctioning body to try to limit the total amount of money that gets spent. It has worked to some extent in the past, but those teams with better financing most often do well.

If you want to get into why or why-not Toyota hasn't achieved much success in F1, you might find it a bit more involved that you stated.

My $.02

HPP

Rumpler made cars after the war? Wow, I didn't know that. I only knew that they produced Etrich Taubes during the war.



Just drop your LS1 in a stock bodied '84 Trans Am, and lower it.
>> http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ont/84TACd.jpg

chuntington101

i agree stroker! but its is the general rule of thumb! but you are right lol

Chris.

MadBill

"The shape was similar to a falling drop of water"
For what it's worth, a falling drop of water is only shaped like a 'tear drop' just before it breaks loose and starts to fall. When actually falling, it is roughly spherical, but flattened on the bottom...
Yeah, I know:

Zeus

+1

It actually looks like a hamburger if you look at it through a high speed camera.

wabmorgan

Windsheild rake does very much so affect Cd. The more rake to more areodynamic the car will be. That is not to say other factors don't but the windshield rake is important. Wider tires for one add drag.

To be fair... I doubt there is a whopping differance in C/d between a 3rd gen, 4th gen, C5 or even C6. They all share a common shape.

HPP

You just won't let this one go, will ya?

So, you're saying then, that the wind tunnel data is a lie? That the 4th Gen F-Bodies are more aerodynamic than stated?

The C6 and early 3rd Gens both had lower Cds than the LS1 4th Gens. Both those cars had less rake to the windshield. So.... either the wind tunnel data is a lie, or the windshield doesn't have as much effect as you think.

Phoenix 5.7

iTrader: (7)

the only way to make a direct comparison is for that to be the only change. although similar, the 3rd and 4th had too many different mods made. and the C6, while similar in shape, is designed with aero in mind more.