Piston Ring install INFO
06-28-2006, 01:39 PM
#21
Launching!
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my ring is 1" down in the cylinder from the deck. my ring end gap is .016
I think that is pretty tight. I think it is good for how it came straight from Total Seal.
Min - Max spec is .0013 - .022
I think that is pretty tight. I think it is good for how it came straight from Total Seal.
Min - Max spec is .0013 - .022
06-28-2006, 02:16 PM
#22
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on another note. I have no side clearance at all! With new or used rings. With new or used pistons! What do you all recommend? I was thinking of doing some filing on the piston, or the ring. thanks!
06-28-2006, 03:31 PM
#23
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by ezrollin
Ring End Gap has a min and max specification. What is better? To be closer to max or closer to min? I would think being closer to min would let less blowby by. Thanks
06-28-2006, 03:33 PM
#24
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by ezrollin
on another note. I have no side clearance at all! With new or used rings. With new or used pistons! What do you all recommend? I was thinking of doing some filing on the piston, or the ring. thanks!
06-28-2006, 06:07 PM
#27
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my smallest feeler gauge is .0015, I can barely slip just a little bit of the feeler gauge in above the ring (side clearance). It will not go all the way in.
I might consider new pistons.
thanks
I might consider new pistons.
thanks
Last edited by ezrollin; 06-28-2006 at 06:23 PM.
06-28-2006, 07:05 PM
#28
Launching!
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Will carbon deposits fill up the side clearance after awhile? Then I would have no combustion pressure to push the ring out against the cylinder wall. correct?
I would have no compression if that happened
I would have no compression if that happened
06-29-2006, 05:15 PM
#30
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Hey ez,
Not trying to steal anything from Erik here, just thought I would give you an answer now, as sometimes Erik gets busy and can take a bit to reply. As Erik said if you can get the rings on and they will spin in the groove with your fingers, then they are not too tight!! Just be sure that the rings and ring grooves in the pistons are spotlessly clean! I have seen small machining chips stuck in the ring grooves of new pistons. The clearance is going to be around .0005 to .001, so you should have trouble getting your .0015 feeler guage in there! Don't worry about carbon deposits filling up the ring groove either!
Not trying to steal anything from Erik here, just thought I would give you an answer now, as sometimes Erik gets busy and can take a bit to reply. As Erik said if you can get the rings on and they will spin in the groove with your fingers, then they are not too tight!! Just be sure that the rings and ring grooves in the pistons are spotlessly clean! I have seen small machining chips stuck in the ring grooves of new pistons. The clearance is going to be around .0005 to .001, so you should have trouble getting your .0015 feeler guage in there! Don't worry about carbon deposits filling up the ring groove either!
06-29-2006, 05:55 PM
#31
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thanks, that makes me alot more confident and hopeful! But the recommended side clearance from my Haynes manual and from Total Seal both say .0013 - .022
So I'm thinking I should do some LIGHT sanding/filing
Thanks again!!
nytoy, I'm really new to this. I borrowed the stone honer from Autozone. But in my Haynes, it says that the "Bottle Brush" AKA "Flex Hone" is easier for a newbie. I would think that if you're using a Torque Plate you'd be okay, cause I didnt. Now quit whoreing my thread!
J/K!
So I'm thinking I should do some LIGHT sanding/filing
Thanks again!!
nytoy, I'm really new to this. I borrowed the stone honer from Autozone. But in my Haynes, it says that the "Bottle Brush" AKA "Flex Hone" is easier for a newbie. I would think that if you're using a Torque Plate you'd be okay, cause I didnt. Now quit whoreing my thread!
J/K!
06-29-2006, 07:17 PM
#32
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i can fit a piece of a new ring in and its real hard to drag that piece all the way around the piston in the top groove.
I stuck the head of the piston flush against my mirror. I used my feeler gauge to tell if the head was bent. Affirmative, in some spots.
I stuck the head of the piston flush against my mirror. I used my feeler gauge to tell if the head was bent. Affirmative, in some spots.
06-29-2006, 10:52 PM
#33
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Hey again ez,
I looked in my Total Seal catalog and you are absolutely correct, they list the clearance .0015 to .003". Although I know some of the race stuff I've assembled was tighter than that.... Of course they were machined to a stricter tolerance for that purpose in mind as well... Anyway I apologize for any misguidance. Are your pistons stock? If so you may want to consider replacing them after all, especially if they aren't flat anymore... I wouldn't file or sand the rings or the ring groove.....
I looked in my Total Seal catalog and you are absolutely correct, they list the clearance .0015 to .003". Although I know some of the race stuff I've assembled was tighter than that.... Of course they were machined to a stricter tolerance for that purpose in mind as well... Anyway I apologize for any misguidance. Are your pistons stock? If so you may want to consider replacing them after all, especially if they aren't flat anymore... I wouldn't file or sand the rings or the ring groove.....
06-30-2006, 12:44 AM
#34
Just wanted to add to the comments made by Richiec77.
A torque plate is just what it sounds like. It is an aluminum plate that bolts to the deck surface of the block. You install the plate and torque your head bolts just as though you were installing the head (remember, theads immaculately clean, follow bolt manufacturer's instructions regarding assembly lube) You would not want to use a torque-to-yield bolt though, as they are shot afterwards. You may be able to use your old torque-to-yield bolts, but I'm not so sure on that.
Now, the reason for the torque plate when you hone is to simulate the loads placed on the cylinder wall in as assembled engine. I've even heard of pro shops running hot coolant through the water jackets to get everything as close as possible. This way, as you hone the walls, they should be perfectly round and give the best seal at operating conditions.
When ring gaps butt, they usually force they edge of the ring into the cyinder wall, leaving vertical scratches in the wall, which makes a mess of the other rings and possibly the piston itself. Loose is safer at the expense of optimum cylinder sealing. Usually .004 inch clearance per inch of bore is acceptable for a naturally aspirated engine. With a 3.9 - 4.0 bore, .016 is right on the money. Remember, if they come in less than .016, you may be able to toss them in another hole and get more clearance. If you are running nitrous or some form of forced induction, you'll want more clearance to deal with the additional heat, .0045 to .005 per inch of bore, or .018 - .020 in this case.
If you do need to file the rings, only file one side, only file from the outside towards the inside, and dont forget to deburr the filed area.
Good Luck!
A torque plate is just what it sounds like. It is an aluminum plate that bolts to the deck surface of the block. You install the plate and torque your head bolts just as though you were installing the head (remember, theads immaculately clean, follow bolt manufacturer's instructions regarding assembly lube) You would not want to use a torque-to-yield bolt though, as they are shot afterwards. You may be able to use your old torque-to-yield bolts, but I'm not so sure on that.
Now, the reason for the torque plate when you hone is to simulate the loads placed on the cylinder wall in as assembled engine. I've even heard of pro shops running hot coolant through the water jackets to get everything as close as possible. This way, as you hone the walls, they should be perfectly round and give the best seal at operating conditions.
When ring gaps butt, they usually force they edge of the ring into the cyinder wall, leaving vertical scratches in the wall, which makes a mess of the other rings and possibly the piston itself. Loose is safer at the expense of optimum cylinder sealing. Usually .004 inch clearance per inch of bore is acceptable for a naturally aspirated engine. With a 3.9 - 4.0 bore, .016 is right on the money. Remember, if they come in less than .016, you may be able to toss them in another hole and get more clearance. If you are running nitrous or some form of forced induction, you'll want more clearance to deal with the additional heat, .0045 to .005 per inch of bore, or .018 - .020 in this case.
If you do need to file the rings, only file one side, only file from the outside towards the inside, and dont forget to deburr the filed area.
Good Luck!
