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Nice intake manifold... - The ITB thread
Originally Posted by J-Rod
Sam at Sam's Performance built them. Now he buys the Harrop unit as it is just a lot easier than building stuff himself.
What would be the ideal tb size for lets say a h/c 346? I know Harrop has the 52 and 55mm versions available. What would be done with the sensors, TPS and MAP? What would be some ideas for adapting an efficient filtering system without restricting flow and still maintaining adaquate clearance?
Things I've noticed in random order.
1. Fabricating the plates for the tbs and adaptors to mate to the intake ports
2. Drilling and tapping for injectors
3. Fabricating adapters for the tbs to intake ports
4. Fabricating throttle linkage
5. Moving sensors
I know I'm missing a bunch here and would really appreciate serious help. Hopefully we can avoid people saying, "If you have to ask than you can't do it." Just trying to learn here.
Originally Posted by Phoenix 5.7
since Harrop designs the intakes to work on an LSX, im guessin it incorportates those sensors into the design.
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
beast do you have a pic of your engine bay with the harrop on it? I'm curious hwo that fits in the f body.
Originally Posted by The Alchemist
My question is for all of the type of new intake manifolds. How do you tune to use them? Obviously you have to go speed density since you don't have a single mass airflow sensor, but do you still have a MAP (manifold pressure sensor) since you have individual throttles and not a common intake chamber?
When you get that intake on the car, please take pic's, one reason I never considered it as an option was beacuase of the very good chance that it wasn't gonna fit on the f body due to teh cowl.. if you have no probels fitting it on with the air filter ***'y, I think I'll ahve to rethink that as a possible future option again.
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
When you get that intake on the car, please take pic's, one reason I never considered it as an option was beacuase of the very good chance that it wasn't gonna fit on the f body due to teh cowl..
Originally Posted by JL ws-6
if you have no probels fitting it on with the air filter ***'y, I think I'll have to rethink that as a possible future option again.
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sorry for the off topic reply, but...
argon, you have anymore pics of the progress on the car? i kept up with it for awhile but i havent seen anything since the body mock-up...PLEASSSSSSSSEEEEEE?!?!?!?!?
argon, you have anymore pics of the progress on the car? i kept up with it for awhile but i havent seen anything since the body mock-up...PLEASSSSSSSSEEEEEE?!?!?!?!?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: Michigan, auburn HIlls
I know they are working on a LS7 model. L92 I doubt they would even think about doing it now. They are largely unproved and I guess if we do eventually see one it will be much later from now.
The way I look at it, a standard intake setup on a large side for the ls1/2/6/7 setup is 90mm feeding 8 cylinders. An ITB setup is 45+ feeding each cylinder. That would make the VE of each cylinder roughly 2x better. Nothing bad could possibly come of that 
Not quite. The VE of a cylinder has to do with every component of airflow, including the filter, the pre throttle blade tract, the throttle blade itself, the lower intake tract, then the all-important cylinder head. Furthermore, you have to realize that in the stock application, you aren't getting air for all 8 cylinders through a 90mm throttle body simoultaneously. You are realistically just flowing enough air for one, maybe 2 cylinders at max at any one time through the main throttle body. If all 8 were to have identically timed intake events, you'd get just under 8cm^2 per cylinder, which isn't exactly performance inspiring when a 52mm ITB setup gives you over 21cm^2.
That being said, this is sorta off from the ITB thing, but I've got a question. GM has alsways been good about using a decently sized throttle body for stock outputs and applications. So how do they justify using the same sized throttle body on a 400hp, 6/0l, 6500rpm motor as on a 505hp, 7.0l, 7000rpm motor? Seems to me the 90 is way oversized for the LS2, or the 90 is a serious restriction for the LS7.
That being said, this is sorta off from the ITB thing, but I've got a question. GM has alsways been good about using a decently sized throttle body for stock outputs and applications. So how do they justify using the same sized throttle body on a 400hp, 6/0l, 6500rpm motor as on a 505hp, 7.0l, 7000rpm motor? Seems to me the 90 is way oversized for the LS2, or the 90 is a serious restriction for the LS7.
Originally Posted by JimMueller
I'd like to know this also...specifically, LS2/L92 compatibility.
Originally Posted by Phoenix 5.7
if somebody is really considering an ITB setup, they could probably have one fabbed for close to or less than 4750
I am into mine about $1400, and it is not nearly complete, and is for a V6. This thing better add more power than a GT35r, because it's costing just as much. For those who care to look, mine came from TWM Induction.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
On these the "cross ram" design appears superious in my eyes due to:
1. Longer runner length, even the highest RPM apps on pushrods like 6-8" minimum of runner in the manifold.
2. Intake is a continiuos extensionof head. On these designs the runner manifold direction and taper is preserved, there are no bends, change in taper at head to manifold interface.
Should work well.
1. Longer runner length, even the highest RPM apps on pushrods like 6-8" minimum of runner in the manifold.
2. Intake is a continiuos extensionof head. On these designs the runner manifold direction and taper is preserved, there are no bends, change in taper at head to manifold interface.
Should work well.
Originally Posted by manolis
An ITB without throttle valves inside, for extreme flow capacity.
The intake valves do the throttling.
The engine works from 300 rpm to 9000 rpm.
More cheap than anything known (zero cost).
Initially the original plenum was left untouched, only the throttle valve was thrown away:
Then the plenum was sliced to result an efficient ITB
And removing the air filter
Just after cutting
Applying the pushrod VVA on an LSx engine, see relevant thread, a cheap trumpet set can easily overflow any ITB.
For more: http://www.pattakon.com
Manolis Pattakos
The intake valves do the throttling.
The engine works from 300 rpm to 9000 rpm.
More cheap than anything known (zero cost).
Initially the original plenum was left untouched, only the throttle valve was thrown away:
Then the plenum was sliced to result an efficient ITB
And removing the air filter
Just after cutting
Applying the pushrod VVA on an LSx engine, see relevant thread, a cheap trumpet set can easily overflow any ITB.
For more: http://www.pattakon.com
Manolis Pattakos
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Guys, I have one of these installed with a full custom cowl hood design on my 408 in my GTO. Its a beautiful piece of art, I would have dyno numbers by now but one of my heads had a hole in it and is currently being replaced. So hopefully within the next few weeks I can get some numbers up for everyone. There is a US distributor for these now so you don't have to buy them through Harrop but they aren't a sponsor on this board. And yes, the pricing shipped to your door is still right around $4k the US dollar has taken a dive in the last 6 months raising the price by almost $500.