Fast 90 Intake porting..
Tony,
Thanks for the verification of my thoughts on porting the manifold. I do not plan to port an intake (FAST or otherwise in the near future). I have ported some heads, oil pumps and the like and I find it fun and fascinating. I'm just curious about the process.
All my best,
Steve
Thanks for the verification of my thoughts on porting the manifold. I do not plan to port an intake (FAST or otherwise in the near future). I have ported some heads, oil pumps and the like and I find it fun and fascinating. I'm just curious about the process.
All my best,
Steve
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: South Louisiana
Well, I have spent over an hour reading this thread...good stuff. Not that I am able to add anything new to the discussion, I have included a few thoughts:
Two reputable vendors, with whom I have spoken, have both indicated that they are consistently seeing increases of 8-12 rwhp from a ported FAST intake over the increases already realized by the same intake right out of the box.
The way that I see it, if I am going to spend the money to increase the performance of my car, and porting the FAST intake, that is sitting in my garage, will help me achieve my goals, I will shell out the additional clams if they are available. If one is working with a limited budget, perhaps they need to evaluate more closely where their money is going and whether or not a ported FAST intake is the best use of funds.
I have seen a range of costs associated with porting a FAST intake. One vendor, who originally ported my stock LS2 intake charges, if I recall correctly, $350 for the work. As referenced in this thread, it appears that Tony Mamo charges somewhere in the neighborhood of $500.
I plan on having this work completed by the same vendor who is doing the rest of my engine work. He has quoted me a price of $150 for doing this work. I suspect, like the dyno tuning, I am getting a price break because of the other work being done...which I immensely appreciate.
As one can see, there is a relatively wide range of costs for this work. Remember the saying about "fast, inexpensive, and quality".
My car is not a 9-sec car, but I do hope to exceed 460 rwhp when all is said and done. Also, I'm not 6'8", but my best bench is 640 lb. :p
-K
Originally Posted by SSwanner
do you think your gonna gain 10-20+ by porting a $800 custom intake?...i think its just off the wall to spend $200, $300, $400, $500+ to have a intake ported when its near impossible to gain more then 1-5hp/tq from.
The way that I see it, if I am going to spend the money to increase the performance of my car, and porting the FAST intake, that is sitting in my garage, will help me achieve my goals, I will shell out the additional clams if they are available. If one is working with a limited budget, perhaps they need to evaluate more closely where their money is going and whether or not a ported FAST intake is the best use of funds.
Originally Posted by novass72
How much more than a a stock fast is it to have somebody like mamo port it? That is what will tell me if porting is worth it.
I plan on having this work completed by the same vendor who is doing the rest of my engine work. He has quoted me a price of $150 for doing this work. I suspect, like the dyno tuning, I am getting a price break because of the other work being done...which I immensely appreciate.
As one can see, there is a relatively wide range of costs for this work. Remember the saying about "fast, inexpensive, and quality".
Originally Posted by N4cer
Of course you'll get abused. You know you're in the land of the internet. Everyone has a 9sec car, 460rwhp from a small cam, and is 6'8" and benches 550lbs.
-K
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: L.I. NY
I don't often post but I figured I'd chime in.
2 weeks ago I contacted Tony and asked for him to do a manifold for me. The Z06 package was just finished and rolled off the Vette Doctors dyno in Amityville NY with a uncorrected number of 504hp and 441tq. We pulled the car to 7000 rpms on the dyno and the power just carried to 7000 without droping off more that 5 hp from peak of 6400 rpms. The temp and humidity that day was 55 degrees and 15 percent humidity, 30 hg. I will eventually get the corrected numbers. The package from Carmen (Vette Doctors) was a set of ETP 215, a georgous set of American Racing headers (Vette Doctor series of course) 390 gear, Vette Doc custom grind, 90 Fast with a TPIS 90mm, excedy clutch and a Vararam and a LOT more tricks that Carmen & Dennis won't reveal to me. This package from the Vette Docs is simply amazing - it is a 346 that is docile and ferocious at the same time. The Vette Docs are second to none, I witnessed the before/after tuning Carmen did with this package and the driveability is absolutely like stock.
Well - back to Tony, he called me back and I arranged for him to port a new Fast 90 manifold for me. I went into the garage, lifted my manifold and marked the ports with a piece of clear acetate so he would have my exact port size and shape. A week later it showed up with what appeared to be CNC porting. Each port is exactly the same, perfectly duplicated in every way. I'm so **** that I took my digital mic out and inspected each port and to my amazement they were perfect. The port size from side to side and vertically up near the injector hole is modified, not only matching the port, it goes back at least 6 to 8". As I match it against the stocker - MOST IMPORTANTLY - I see that the ports and runners are RESHAPED, TWEAKED and STRAIGHTENED throughout most of the runner. I imagine only cfm gains from all of this porting work. It seems as if he really did his homework.
Again, absolutely amazing hand work - I'd take pics of it but don't want to step on any toes. I still don't understand how the runners are so perfect, it just does not look hand ported. I called Tony and had to ask if he CNC'd the ports, he laughed and said one of his buddies always said he has CNC hands. He is an Artist and I now believe it was money well spent. I've ported plastic manifolds myself in the past but I always have divets from the tootie roll that most likely causes more damage to the airflow than good.
Mamo also includes a list of his helpful hints to install the manifold without problems. They really came in handy because I would have gone about the install totally different.
My forte is to over-think and tweak every combination until I extract every last drip of HP & TQ just like the rest of you on this forum. I will be on the dyno hopefully soon, maybe in the next few weeks to see what the gains are. All that I can say is IT HAS TO equal more horsepower because the volume difference is incredible.
My next run of mods are: Mezerie water pump with a 160 stat and to send my injectors to New Era performance for service. I 'm hoping to gain with the few mods (ported fast, EWP,clean injectors) a modest 15 hp and tq, I would be happy with that and anything more is a bonus.
I will post the new dyno ASAP
2 weeks ago I contacted Tony and asked for him to do a manifold for me. The Z06 package was just finished and rolled off the Vette Doctors dyno in Amityville NY with a uncorrected number of 504hp and 441tq. We pulled the car to 7000 rpms on the dyno and the power just carried to 7000 without droping off more that 5 hp from peak of 6400 rpms. The temp and humidity that day was 55 degrees and 15 percent humidity, 30 hg. I will eventually get the corrected numbers. The package from Carmen (Vette Doctors) was a set of ETP 215, a georgous set of American Racing headers (Vette Doctor series of course) 390 gear, Vette Doc custom grind, 90 Fast with a TPIS 90mm, excedy clutch and a Vararam and a LOT more tricks that Carmen & Dennis won't reveal to me. This package from the Vette Docs is simply amazing - it is a 346 that is docile and ferocious at the same time. The Vette Docs are second to none, I witnessed the before/after tuning Carmen did with this package and the driveability is absolutely like stock.
Well - back to Tony, he called me back and I arranged for him to port a new Fast 90 manifold for me. I went into the garage, lifted my manifold and marked the ports with a piece of clear acetate so he would have my exact port size and shape. A week later it showed up with what appeared to be CNC porting. Each port is exactly the same, perfectly duplicated in every way. I'm so **** that I took my digital mic out and inspected each port and to my amazement they were perfect. The port size from side to side and vertically up near the injector hole is modified, not only matching the port, it goes back at least 6 to 8". As I match it against the stocker - MOST IMPORTANTLY - I see that the ports and runners are RESHAPED, TWEAKED and STRAIGHTENED throughout most of the runner. I imagine only cfm gains from all of this porting work. It seems as if he really did his homework.
Again, absolutely amazing hand work - I'd take pics of it but don't want to step on any toes. I still don't understand how the runners are so perfect, it just does not look hand ported. I called Tony and had to ask if he CNC'd the ports, he laughed and said one of his buddies always said he has CNC hands. He is an Artist and I now believe it was money well spent. I've ported plastic manifolds myself in the past but I always have divets from the tootie roll that most likely causes more damage to the airflow than good.
Mamo also includes a list of his helpful hints to install the manifold without problems. They really came in handy because I would have gone about the install totally different.
My forte is to over-think and tweak every combination until I extract every last drip of HP & TQ just like the rest of you on this forum. I will be on the dyno hopefully soon, maybe in the next few weeks to see what the gains are. All that I can say is IT HAS TO equal more horsepower because the volume difference is incredible.
My next run of mods are: Mezerie water pump with a 160 stat and to send my injectors to New Era performance for service. I 'm hoping to gain with the few mods (ported fast, EWP,clean injectors) a modest 15 hp and tq, I would be happy with that and anything more is a bonus.
I will post the new dyno ASAP
Last edited by Chris Campi; Feb 12, 2007 at 07:38 AM.
If the car has the water pump and thermostat on with every intake, why worry about it? The playing field will be even, and the results will be realistic. Very few people on this board would be running without a tstat or wpump.
no, he said he's putting the ported intake on with an elec. waterpump and t stat.. I'm asking to have the intake alone installed and tested.. teh aterpump.t stat will for sure make more power... so to not leave the question on what did what for the power gain... the only way to see what the intake alone does is to test it with just the intake changed.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: L.I. NY
Back of the class... that is funny -
I've been building that 65 GTO for a few years, that project is killing me.
Small update. Went for a ride Sunday morning, ran across two friends. One friend that has a 07 Z06 with a airbox and a Cartek tune. The other friend has the new Mustang Shelby GT500 with airbox, supertune, AR longtubes and AR exhaust setup.
I did not expect the results with the 07 ZO6. I figured I might get the jump on him and then he would pull past me like a freight-train. Wrong - he left first, I pulled him uptop as if I had the 427. LOL And the GT500 just needs to loose weight. He said it had 525 rwhp and next week he's coming back with more boost. I love this little 346.
I've been building that 65 GTO for a few years, that project is killing me.
Small update. Went for a ride Sunday morning, ran across two friends. One friend that has a 07 Z06 with a airbox and a Cartek tune. The other friend has the new Mustang Shelby GT500 with airbox, supertune, AR longtubes and AR exhaust setup.
I did not expect the results with the 07 ZO6. I figured I might get the jump on him and then he would pull past me like a freight-train. Wrong - he left first, I pulled him uptop as if I had the 427. LOL And the GT500 just needs to loose weight. He said it had 525 rwhp and next week he's coming back with more boost. I love this little 346.
Last edited by Chris Campi; Feb 14, 2007 at 12:53 PM.
Work is what is taking so long. From some of the post here I'm pretty sure I'll get hammered after I post results wanting to know EVERY detail like I'm trying to screw the numbers and I just don't have time for that kinda detail right now. As soon as I get time at the shop to do it 100 % documented I'll do it.
John
John
Well, here are my numbers with a home ported Fast 90/NW90 vs a stock LS6 intake with ported TB.
Before: 453 rwhp/423 rwtq unlocked (old peak numbers)
After: 477 rwhp/ 437 rwtq unlocked (Locked 484 rwhp/464 rwtq)
Overall, I picked up 23 rwhp and 14 rwtq unlocked.
There were no other changes made to the car other than getting the AF ratio back in line. Sorry for no graph, I don't have a scanner, but there were some very nice gains under the curve. The after numbers was on the 3rd straight dyno pull without a cooldown, so they probably would be higher than that.
Before: 453 rwhp/423 rwtq unlocked (old peak numbers)
After: 477 rwhp/ 437 rwtq unlocked (Locked 484 rwhp/464 rwtq)
Overall, I picked up 23 rwhp and 14 rwtq unlocked.
There were no other changes made to the car other than getting the AF ratio back in line. Sorry for no graph, I don't have a scanner, but there were some very nice gains under the curve. The after numbers was on the 3rd straight dyno pull without a cooldown, so they probably would be higher than that.
