Writing 3-axis CNC program to port heads for school.
Writing 3-axis CNC program to port heads for school. I'm an Industrial Engineering senior at LSU, and I'm taking a computerized manufacturing class. Like all good college courses we have a project at the end of the semester. Th is project will be to create something that requires precision and incorporates free-form surfaces. I want my project to be a simple program to open up the bowl area of LS1 241 heads. I'd like to get more creative, but I will be limited by the 3-axis machine. It is my understanding that nearly all CNC heads are cut on a 5-axis machine.
I've only gotten feedback from one person on this task, and told to do it as just entertainment and expect sub-par results. I'm hoping to get some feedback on this project- so let me have it.
I don't plan to do anything extravagant, just some simple opening of the bowl and what ever areas I can get to as limited by the CNC machine. The code will be extracted from FeatureCam, a program that will allow visual developement and transform a 3D view into CNC code. Featurecam has atleast three different methods to produce a desired free form surface and thus WILL NOT be the limiting factor in this project.
I plan to post .jpegs of my 3D/orthoginal drawings and to post pictures of the machined heads after the fact.
Thanks for looking and be sure to give some input if you've programmed CNC code for heads.
I've only gotten feedback from one person on this task, and told to do it as just entertainment and expect sub-par results. I'm hoping to get some feedback on this project- so let me have it.
I don't plan to do anything extravagant, just some simple opening of the bowl and what ever areas I can get to as limited by the CNC machine. The code will be extracted from FeatureCam, a program that will allow visual developement and transform a 3D view into CNC code. Featurecam has atleast three different methods to produce a desired free form surface and thus WILL NOT be the limiting factor in this project.
I plan to post .jpegs of my 3D/orthoginal drawings and to post pictures of the machined heads after the fact.
Thanks for looking and be sure to give some input if you've programmed CNC code for heads.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Hi,
I'm an engineer too and I work with 3 axis Mills, lathes and MasterCam all day long. It would be interresting to make a program for 241 LS1 head porting but we are limited with only 3 axis. Maybe a roughfing program would be great for basic bowl enlargement and port match but if you want a real porting job you'll need at least 4-axis and hand blending for sure.
Your project is very interresting and you'll need a good 3D model with surfaces to start with. Maybe you can plot the actual runners with a good CMM and modify the surfaces to get better flow. You can also use a flow simulator to know if your modifications are good but this would need a very powerful computer and weeks of calculations
Fluid mechanic can be a PIA with all the formulas but it's doable. IMO, Best thing is to do experiences with a manual grinder and a Flow bench and after that duplicate the result with the CNC machine if you have enough axis.
It's very easy to remove material with a CNC but you have to remove the right amount in the right places. This is where the 5-axis machine comes into play.
If you end up with a program, I would be interrested to see what you have done by seeing the G-code. I work with Okuma, Mazak and milling with Fanuc control.
SSDION
Quebec, Canada
I'm an engineer too and I work with 3 axis Mills, lathes and MasterCam all day long. It would be interresting to make a program for 241 LS1 head porting but we are limited with only 3 axis. Maybe a roughfing program would be great for basic bowl enlargement and port match but if you want a real porting job you'll need at least 4-axis and hand blending for sure.
Your project is very interresting and you'll need a good 3D model with surfaces to start with. Maybe you can plot the actual runners with a good CMM and modify the surfaces to get better flow. You can also use a flow simulator to know if your modifications are good but this would need a very powerful computer and weeks of calculations
Fluid mechanic can be a PIA with all the formulas but it's doable. IMO, Best thing is to do experiences with a manual grinder and a Flow bench and after that duplicate the result with the CNC machine if you have enough axis.It's very easy to remove material with a CNC but you have to remove the right amount in the right places. This is where the 5-axis machine comes into play.
If you end up with a program, I would be interrested to see what you have done by seeing the G-code. I work with Okuma, Mazak and milling with Fanuc control.
SSDION
Quebec, Canada
Thanks SSDION, how good does the CMM need to be? We [LSU] have one, but it's broken and there's no chance of a timely repair. So I'll have to have it scanned in by a 3rd party.
Plans are to use a pencil grinder and flow bench to get my desired shape. I've dabled in hand porting before so I'll try to use my own ports as my targeted shape.
So, will anyone's CMM work? Is it a time consuming process to digitize a 3D shape with a CMM?
Ben T.
Plans are to use a pencil grinder and flow bench to get my desired shape. I've dabled in hand porting before so I'll try to use my own ports as my targeted shape.
So, will anyone's CMM work? Is it a time consuming process to digitize a 3D shape with a CMM?
Ben T.
i don't know what kind of cnc mill you have but where i work we have haas mills and you can get a 4th axis to work on them .i can't remember what it is called but the haas mills are g code and fairly easy to program ,i guess like the okumas.we have a mazak but they use conversational on it.i have thought about running a program through one to see what results i could get but figured it would be a waste of a head.
good luck on your project.
good luck on your project.
You will not get good results with a 3 axis CNC... but it would still be a neat project. The 4th axis you are referring to is an Indexer... it would help, but the results would still not be 'good.' I think SSDION might be right though, it might make for an OK roughing job to be finished by hand.
As for the CMM, it would be a time consuming process but I don't see why it wouldn't be do-able. I thought you said your CMM was broken though?
As for the CMM, it would be a time consuming process but I don't see why it wouldn't be do-able. I thought you said your CMM was broken though?
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JPMuscle, I see what you're saying. It does look like I was being rude, but I can assure you I did not mean that in a way less than polite. I was just trying to restate that I would have to have someone else scan the 3D object in, that our CMM was indeed broken.
Sometimes I hate the faceless internet.
Ben T.
Sometimes I hate the faceless internet.
Ben T.
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Yea the problem with 3-axis is that the bit will never be truely perpendicular to the surface being cut...A 5-axis machine can position the bit to be perpendicular and makes much smoother and more precise cuts.
You can do it with a 3-axis, but like many said, it won't be anything to write home about. The surface will end up rough...With a stepped look and feel. I suppose if you're doing it for a proof of concept type of project, you have nothing to worry about as you can do it...But I wouldn't bolt them onto a car.
You can do it with a 3-axis, but like many said, it won't be anything to write home about. The surface will end up rough...With a stepped look and feel. I suppose if you're doing it for a proof of concept type of project, you have nothing to worry about as you can do it...But I wouldn't bolt them onto a car.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 680
Likes: 0
From: Jamestown, NY
Originally Posted by Studytime
JPMuscle, I see what you're saying. It does look like I was being rude, but I can assure you I did not mean that in a way less than polite. I was just trying to restate that I would have to have someone else scan the 3D object in, that our CMM was indeed broken.
Sometimes I hate the faceless internet.
Ben T.
Sometimes I hate the faceless internet.
Ben T.
No no no i was commenting on the fact that it was in fact a very polite thread in a good, i was commending you on your comments lol it just took me at a lil bit of a shock, you jus dont see things like that all the time. lol
-john
cnc
Originally Posted by Studytime
Thanks SSDION, how good does the CMM need to be? We [LSU] have one, but it's broken and there's no chance of a timely repair. So I'll have to have it scanned in by a 3rd party.
Plans are to use a pencil grinder and flow bench to get my desired shape. I've dabled in hand porting before so I'll try to use my own ports as my targeted shape.
So, will anyone's CMM work? Is it a time consuming process to digitize a 3D shape with a CMM?
Ben T.
Plans are to use a pencil grinder and flow bench to get my desired shape. I've dabled in hand porting before so I'll try to use my own ports as my targeted shape.
So, will anyone's CMM work? Is it a time consuming process to digitize a 3D shape with a CMM?
Ben T.
Carey, that seems like some sound advice you gave. It would be a lot easier to do a chamber than a bowl or port. Guess I'm off to read on chamber design and to go study the later LSx chambers GM has been releasing.
Would you happen to have any scans of any LSx chamber at ET Performance? Something I could open with Solid Works or AutoCad?
Ben T.
Would you happen to have any scans of any LSx chamber at ET Performance? Something I could open with Solid Works or AutoCad?
Ben T.
If there are any scans of the chamber, I would like it as well; I have access to some very powerful computers at school as well and would like to do some prototyping.
(I'm going to school for Mechanical Engineering)
(I'm going to school for Mechanical Engineering)
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: NEPA
I am a highschool senior headed for mechanical engineering at PSU. Very cool project, can't wait to see how it turns out. SSDion, if you don't mind me asking, what is your job title? Sounds very interesting, I would like to get into the machining ends of things. Thanks. Sorry for the hijack.
hey, if you're going to machine a chamber, heres a intresting idea....
an L92 head is too big for a LS1...
if you welded up the valves and chamber, you could try to put a LS1 bore size chamber and valve seats in it..
just an idea.
an L92 head is too big for a LS1...
if you welded up the valves and chamber, you could try to put a LS1 bore size chamber and valve seats in it..
just an idea.
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
hey, if you're going to machine a chamber, heres a intresting idea....
an L92 head is too big for a LS1...
if you welded up the valves and chamber, you could try to put a LS1 bore size chamber and valve seats in it..
just an idea.
an L92 head is too big for a LS1...
if you welded up the valves and chamber, you could try to put a LS1 bore size chamber and valve seats in it..
just an idea.
That could be very interesting indeed
I work with a Bridgeport 4 axis CNC machine. Ive thought about doing something like this before in my spare time, but without a 5th axis, I don't think there will be much to be expected. Just as it was said before, a rougher type program then finish it off by hand. Id also like to see what you come along with.
