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Flex Fuel related Q

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Old Nov 9, 2006 | 05:11 PM
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Default Flex Fuel related Q

alright, so we all know about the flex fuel GM suvs with the 5.3s. what i want to know is how the computer deals with the varatable imput of fuel it needs to put into the motor. it dosent need to put in as much gas as it would 85% alcohol..

reason im asking is that id like to be able to use E85 in my car whenever i wanted. id have to upgrade the injectors, but i wanted to know if a 00-01 computer could be tuned or if i would need to get upgraded hard/software.

i figure i could make a motor with over 12:1 compression and run it on pump premium to drive around town in, having the motor pull spark to not get predetination and then having it so i could put e85 in it whenever i wanted. i dont want to build a high compression motor and then be out driving it and run low of E85 when im miles away from a station.
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Old Nov 9, 2006 | 10:14 PM
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i think there is a hydrometer in the gas tank.

You'll need different fuel lines, orings and fuel rails. I think it had a different fuel pump too.
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Old Nov 9, 2006 | 10:16 PM
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Also, since E-85 is 105 octane, you can easily turbocharge that high compression engine.

E-85 = boost
pump = low boost/no boost.

at 11 or even 12:1 compression, you'll have plenty of compression to run just fine off boost.
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Old Nov 9, 2006 | 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by treyZ28
i think there is a hydrometer in the gas tank. .
There is a fuel composition sensor mounted on the fuel feed line near the the engine.
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Old Nov 9, 2006 | 11:33 PM
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The biggest hurdle would be running the proper AFR's for the fuel mixture.
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Old Nov 10, 2006 | 01:58 AM
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i dont care about the details, thats for my tuner to worry about. i just want to know if it can be done and what i have to replace.

no i dont have to replace fuel lines etc to run E85, there is a thread on here about how you can use stock fuel lines with E85
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Old Nov 10, 2006 | 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Alvin
The biggest hurdle would be running the proper AFR's for the fuel mixture.
A lambda meter would get there for regular cruising, stiochiometric. What is the ideal AFR for Power? Probably rich right?
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Old Nov 10, 2006 | 07:46 AM
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Yeah, E-85 runs very rich compared to E-0 IIRC.
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Old Nov 10, 2006 | 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SSpeedracer
A lambda meter would get there for regular cruising, stiochiometric. What is the ideal AFR for Power? Probably rich right?
No as the E85 mixture changes if you decide to put a little pure gas in it. Hell they change hte mixture pretty drastically just seasonally. When they do this the lambda changes.
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Old Nov 11, 2006 | 02:19 AM
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What is GM using for fuel control on the flex fuel suv's? I assumed it was the O2 sensors for feedback and a fuel map for power.
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Old Nov 11, 2006 | 02:29 AM
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The sensor in the fueltank alters the stoichvalue in the PCM. look at pic.
Attached Thumbnails Flex Fuel related Q-e85.jpg  
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Old Nov 11, 2006 | 01:36 PM
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can the sensor be retrofitted, and then does a wire just need to be ran to the computer or do i need another computer?
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Old Nov 11, 2006 | 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cop Car
can the sensor be retrofitted, and then does a wire just need to be ran to the computer or do i need another computer?
The sensor shouldn´t be any problem just look up the partnumber.

Check on a Tahoe which pin it uses on the PCM for input. But the PCM might not be the same that the one you have. Dont know if it is possible to update your PCM with the right program. Maybe it is possible to use a Tahoe computer in an f-body.
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Old Nov 12, 2006 | 01:49 PM
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The entire fuel system is upgraded for alcohol due to corrosion issues: Stainless steel tank and lines, different pump, different seals, etc. Standard vehicles are designed for a maximum of 10% ethanol.
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Old Nov 12, 2006 | 02:08 PM
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are you sure the tank is different? also, i thought it was 22% ethanol
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Old Nov 12, 2006 | 03:43 PM
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Owner's manuals I have read say 10%. Possibly plastic tanks are OK, but steel ones definitely have to be special.
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Old Nov 12, 2006 | 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MadBill
The entire fuel system is upgraded for alcohol due to corrosion issues: Stainless steel tank and lines, different pump, different seals, etc. Standard vehicles are designed for a maximum of 10% ethanol.
What's going to happen to Runn's car then?

And how long would you say it would take an F-Body to go to crap from running E85 through it daily?

He is past the 2 year mark so far.
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Old Nov 12, 2006 | 10:16 PM
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There have been people running e-85 in their vehicles for years. However i dont believe that it has much benifit other than the higher octane. Its less efficient than regular gas so lower mpg's.
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Old Nov 13, 2006 | 01:17 AM
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show me proof ie pics or part numbers/descriptions of differences in the fuel tank/lines
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Old Nov 13, 2006 | 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 97BlackLT1TA
There have been people running e-85 in their vehicles for years. However i dont believe that it has much benifit other than the higher octane. Its less efficient than regular gas so lower mpg's.
Actually E85 is in most cases at least 5% more effícient than gasoline at the same lambda value. It produces more exhaust gas for a give weight of fuel air mix giving higher average cylinder pressures inspite of lower EGT's. With streight E85 in a properly tuned car its good for about +5% power / torque increase. At proper mixture you actually are releasing more energy in the cylinder due to the higher quantity of fuel you can burn. Peak combustion pressures are actually lower for ethanol than for gasoline but the cylinder pressures stay higher longer, so you have more (longer) crank angle that is usable by the engine. This lower peak cylinder pressure also helps with detonaton control.

Theorethically, the gain is 5% just by switching fuel. 350 hp X 5% = 15 hp, plus what can be gained from timing.
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