Valvetrain Knocking sound, and Rocker Stud questions [PICS]
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No its not accessable with the blower on.
I definately dont think 7.4's are the right length. With the .074 head gasket, it would be to short.
I've got the head almost off, so I will be able to do an accurate measurement.
I'm also sending the heads off to AFR for further inspection and rebuild. I should know more by the end of next week.
When you check the PR's with the motor torn apart, is it necessary to re-torque the heads? Or can you just set the heads on with the head gasket and make your measurements from there??
I definately dont think 7.4's are the right length. With the .074 head gasket, it would be to short.
I've got the head almost off, so I will be able to do an accurate measurement.
I'm also sending the heads off to AFR for further inspection and rebuild. I should know more by the end of next week.
When you check the PR's with the motor torn apart, is it necessary to re-torque the heads? Or can you just set the heads on with the head gasket and make your measurements from there??
Originally Posted by billc5
At the risk of stating the obvious;
Just a suggestion, put the stock 7.40 push rods in and fire her up.
Why did you pull the blower off, isn't the valve train accessible with it on?
The last time I had what I thought was valve train noise, I ended up with a new motor, not what you wanted to hear, eh?
Was the rotating assembly clearanced for the windage tray, and piston skirts?
Just a suggestion, put the stock 7.40 push rods in and fire her up.
Why did you pull the blower off, isn't the valve train accessible with it on?
The last time I had what I thought was valve train noise, I ended up with a new motor, not what you wanted to hear, eh?
Was the rotating assembly clearanced for the windage tray, and piston skirts?
#22
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I would put the head on with the old gasket if its an MLS gasket, and then torque to say 20 lb-ft for the measurement. Beyond that is bolt stretch and not a factor. Also, since the pushrods come in increments of 0.050" or 0.025" if you are near 7.400" a few thousanths won't make a difference.
#23
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Man, how does this wind up in the Advance section.
a few items off the top of my head.
First item being that all push-rods although marked 7.XXX are not actually that length. Depending on the manufacturer it may be the "Actual over all length" or "Effective overall length". The difference is one will be shorter to the tune of .016"-.024" than the same length called out from another mfg.
Second item is its required to use a thread (intake) sealer. It has become common to use read thread locker on these fasteners. This may also account for a high breakaway torque on top of the usual issues with a bimetallic joints.
Regardless of how "tight" they were or were not it DOES NOT EFFECT the geometry of the valvetrain.
Next one up is you must have the motor assembled to the final specs to check anything. Before you tear it down simply make sure the cam is on base circle and rotate the fastener till there is no up and down motion (will move from side to side) of the rocker arm. Mark with a paint pen top and then rotate while counting the full turns on the marked heads. Typical target is 1.5 full turns till its seated. This will result in a preload roughly .060" and 2 turn will new .080".
The small changes in pushrod length that still allows for proper function (yes there is a range) will actually have minimal impact on the sweep path on the valve tip with the stock rocker arm/ pedastal combination.
If you use the search feature in the proper forum section you will find this information readily available.
Dave
On a side note, I have done enough 225s installs with 7.450" pushrods with stock GM MLS head gaskets that makes me think that with a gasket .024" thicker that it is very possible that 7.500" would be in the working range. Also, Trick-Flows are certainly one brand that is shorter than a brand labeled based on Overall length.
Spend 10 minutes and check for the answer and solution.
a few items off the top of my head.
First item being that all push-rods although marked 7.XXX are not actually that length. Depending on the manufacturer it may be the "Actual over all length" or "Effective overall length". The difference is one will be shorter to the tune of .016"-.024" than the same length called out from another mfg.
Second item is its required to use a thread (intake) sealer. It has become common to use read thread locker on these fasteners. This may also account for a high breakaway torque on top of the usual issues with a bimetallic joints.
Regardless of how "tight" they were or were not it DOES NOT EFFECT the geometry of the valvetrain.
Next one up is you must have the motor assembled to the final specs to check anything. Before you tear it down simply make sure the cam is on base circle and rotate the fastener till there is no up and down motion (will move from side to side) of the rocker arm. Mark with a paint pen top and then rotate while counting the full turns on the marked heads. Typical target is 1.5 full turns till its seated. This will result in a preload roughly .060" and 2 turn will new .080".
The small changes in pushrod length that still allows for proper function (yes there is a range) will actually have minimal impact on the sweep path on the valve tip with the stock rocker arm/ pedastal combination.
If you use the search feature in the proper forum section you will find this information readily available.
Dave
On a side note, I have done enough 225s installs with 7.450" pushrods with stock GM MLS head gaskets that makes me think that with a gasket .024" thicker that it is very possible that 7.500" would be in the working range. Also, Trick-Flows are certainly one brand that is shorter than a brand labeled based on Overall length.
Spend 10 minutes and check for the answer and solution.
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Thanks for the valueable (yet sarcastic) info.
Since I have the motor apart, I will be verifying the PR length AND posting the info.
If the PR lengths are actually 7.50 I will be elated. I am willing to bet the farm its incorrect, but I am hoping its actually right.
As for the sealer on the intake side of the rockers. I am very aware of that. (believe it or not, I use the search function quite often) In this case, it looks like red RTV was used (looks like it at least). Not saying thats bad, I'm just mentioning it.
Also, I know 100% how to check the stud torque measurements.
I think your getting a few things mixed up. I didnt say the torquing of the rockers threw off the geometry. Theres 2 things going on with these heads. 1) PR length looks too long (as indicated in the wipe pattern.) 2) The lifter preload was out of this world. This looks to have been bottoming out the lifter and causing the loud knocking sounds. (At least thats my assumption at this point.)
"IF" the PR's were too long, and the preload to high, should I replace my lifters?? Even if they dont show any severe signs of damage?
Is there ANYTHING else I should be looking for?
One more thing.. Exactly "What" section do you reccomend for technical questions?? Its not like you guys are talking about splitting Atoms in this section..
I mean Jesus, I had questions about valvetrain issues, not how to tie my fuking shoes..
J/K
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Since I have the motor apart, I will be verifying the PR length AND posting the info.
If the PR lengths are actually 7.50 I will be elated. I am willing to bet the farm its incorrect, but I am hoping its actually right.
As for the sealer on the intake side of the rockers. I am very aware of that. (believe it or not, I use the search function quite often) In this case, it looks like red RTV was used (looks like it at least). Not saying thats bad, I'm just mentioning it.
Also, I know 100% how to check the stud torque measurements.
I think your getting a few things mixed up. I didnt say the torquing of the rockers threw off the geometry. Theres 2 things going on with these heads. 1) PR length looks too long (as indicated in the wipe pattern.) 2) The lifter preload was out of this world. This looks to have been bottoming out the lifter and causing the loud knocking sounds. (At least thats my assumption at this point.)
"IF" the PR's were too long, and the preload to high, should I replace my lifters?? Even if they dont show any severe signs of damage?
Is there ANYTHING else I should be looking for?
One more thing.. Exactly "What" section do you reccomend for technical questions?? Its not like you guys are talking about splitting Atoms in this section..
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Originally Posted by 99Fbody99
Man, how does this wind up in the Advance section.
a few items off the top of my head.
First item being that all push-rods although marked 7.XXX are not actually that length. Depending on the manufacturer it may be the "Actual over all length" or "Effective overall length". The difference is one will be shorter to the tune of .016"-.024" than the same length called out from another mfg.
Second item is its required to use a thread (intake) sealer. It has become common to use read thread locker on these fasteners. This may also account for a high breakaway torque on top of the usual issues with a bimetallic joints.
Regardless of how "tight" they were or were not it DOES NOT EFFECT the geometry of the valvetrain.
Next one up is you must have the motor assembled to the final specs to check anything. Before you tear it down simply make sure the cam is on base circle and rotate the fastener till there is no up and down motion (will move from side to side) of the rocker arm. Mark with a paint pen top and then rotate while counting the full turns on the marked heads. Typical target is 1.5 full turns till its seated. This will result in a preload roughly .060" and 2 turn will new .080".
The small changes in pushrod length that still allows for proper function (yes there is a range) will actually have minimal impact on the sweep path on the valve tip with the stock rocker arm/ pedastal combination.
If you use the search feature in the proper forum section you will find this information readily available.
Dave
On a side note, I have done enough 225s installs with 7.450" pushrods with stock GM MLS head gaskets that makes me think that with a gasket .024" thicker that it is very possible that 7.500" would be in the working range. Also, Trick-Flows are certainly one brand that is shorter than a brand labeled based on Overall length.
Spend 10 minutes and check for the answer and solution.
a few items off the top of my head.
First item being that all push-rods although marked 7.XXX are not actually that length. Depending on the manufacturer it may be the "Actual over all length" or "Effective overall length". The difference is one will be shorter to the tune of .016"-.024" than the same length called out from another mfg.
Second item is its required to use a thread (intake) sealer. It has become common to use read thread locker on these fasteners. This may also account for a high breakaway torque on top of the usual issues with a bimetallic joints.
Regardless of how "tight" they were or were not it DOES NOT EFFECT the geometry of the valvetrain.
Next one up is you must have the motor assembled to the final specs to check anything. Before you tear it down simply make sure the cam is on base circle and rotate the fastener till there is no up and down motion (will move from side to side) of the rocker arm. Mark with a paint pen top and then rotate while counting the full turns on the marked heads. Typical target is 1.5 full turns till its seated. This will result in a preload roughly .060" and 2 turn will new .080".
The small changes in pushrod length that still allows for proper function (yes there is a range) will actually have minimal impact on the sweep path on the valve tip with the stock rocker arm/ pedastal combination.
If you use the search feature in the proper forum section you will find this information readily available.
Dave
On a side note, I have done enough 225s installs with 7.450" pushrods with stock GM MLS head gaskets that makes me think that with a gasket .024" thicker that it is very possible that 7.500" would be in the working range. Also, Trick-Flows are certainly one brand that is shorter than a brand labeled based on Overall length.
Spend 10 minutes and check for the answer and solution.
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The picture of the valve tip looks exactly like the picture AFR posted in their thread about the valve tip recall. I think this may be your problem, or at least the root cause. I would contact AFR for confirmation.
Here's the thread with pics:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/611867-afr-s-resolution-valve-tip-issue.html
The 7.50 pushrod length is not that far off considering you are using a .074 compressed thickness head gasket. I used the pushrod length calculator in the sticky in the Internal Engine section and came up with 7.45 but that does not take in consideration a smaller base circle that is usually found on aftermarket cams. Here's a link to the sticky, scroll down to post #5 and download the calculator and save it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html
FWIW - I would never use a allen wrench for that application, buy a set of allen head sockets so you can use the correct ratchet and/or torque wrench.
Here's the thread with pics:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/611867-afr-s-resolution-valve-tip-issue.html
The 7.50 pushrod length is not that far off considering you are using a .074 compressed thickness head gasket. I used the pushrod length calculator in the sticky in the Internal Engine section and came up with 7.45 but that does not take in consideration a smaller base circle that is usually found on aftermarket cams. Here's a link to the sticky, scroll down to post #5 and download the calculator and save it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html
FWIW - I would never use a allen wrench for that application, buy a set of allen head sockets so you can use the correct ratchet and/or torque wrench.
#27
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I cant comment on a lot of this...
But. Just because you torque a bolt up to xx lbft....doesnt mean its that easy or hard to loosen it again !!!!
And yes, often if you tightened to say 30lbft, then tried to go to 40lbft, chances are the wrench wouldnt move any further. It is a pretty small step up.
Or maybe I just use a crappy torque wrench ( quite possible )
AS for the PR length. So you have un-milled heads, and stock rockers, stock block etc.
I cant see why, given you have a gasket some 0.025" thicker than stock, and a camshaft with a smaller base circle ( how much of a lift difference is there between your cam, and a stock one ?? ), why some people say you wouldnt need longer pushrods ? Everything there says you should need longer ones.
Thicker head gasket and cam with smaller base circle, will both require longer PR's
As for the noise.....would lifters that are bottomed out be noisy ?
I know my engine rattles a little, but the piston skirts are pretty small, so I just put it down to piston slap. Doesnt concern me.
For info, Im on stock LS6 block, un-milled Edelbrock heads, 1.7YT's and 7.40 trickflow pushrods, and stock GM MLS gasket at circa 0.050"
My cam has 0.581/0.591 lift....
Not sure how the base circle of that compares to a stock cam.
If your cam has 0.100" smaller base circle, than it stands to reaosn you will need a 0.100" longer PR to make up that difference, all other things being equal.
But. Just because you torque a bolt up to xx lbft....doesnt mean its that easy or hard to loosen it again !!!!
And yes, often if you tightened to say 30lbft, then tried to go to 40lbft, chances are the wrench wouldnt move any further. It is a pretty small step up.
Or maybe I just use a crappy torque wrench ( quite possible )
AS for the PR length. So you have un-milled heads, and stock rockers, stock block etc.
I cant see why, given you have a gasket some 0.025" thicker than stock, and a camshaft with a smaller base circle ( how much of a lift difference is there between your cam, and a stock one ?? ), why some people say you wouldnt need longer pushrods ? Everything there says you should need longer ones.
Thicker head gasket and cam with smaller base circle, will both require longer PR's
As for the noise.....would lifters that are bottomed out be noisy ?
I know my engine rattles a little, but the piston skirts are pretty small, so I just put it down to piston slap. Doesnt concern me.
For info, Im on stock LS6 block, un-milled Edelbrock heads, 1.7YT's and 7.40 trickflow pushrods, and stock GM MLS gasket at circa 0.050"
My cam has 0.581/0.591 lift....
Not sure how the base circle of that compares to a stock cam.
If your cam has 0.100" smaller base circle, than it stands to reaosn you will need a 0.100" longer PR to make up that difference, all other things being equal.
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So if you cant tell by the wipe pattern on the valve tip (pics above), you cant check by judging the turns to zero lash, and you cant tell by checking the torque of the studs, how do "YOU" check your lifter preload??
And I dont mean when installing them. I mean when they are already installed. Do you just not check or something??
The MAX reccomended torque is 22lbft on the studs. It was 24lbft higher than that.
And YES, a lifter being bottomed out will "Cause" valvetrain noise. It may not be the source, but it will definately cause it.
Yes, I have unmilled heads, stock rockers, stock block, stock lifters, and a mild cam 230/234 114 (I was never told the lift)
And I dont mean when installing them. I mean when they are already installed. Do you just not check or something??
The MAX reccomended torque is 22lbft on the studs. It was 24lbft higher than that.
And YES, a lifter being bottomed out will "Cause" valvetrain noise. It may not be the source, but it will definately cause it.
Yes, I have unmilled heads, stock rockers, stock block, stock lifters, and a mild cam 230/234 114 (I was never told the lift)
Originally Posted by stevieturbo
I cant comment on a lot of this...
But. Just because you torque a bolt up to xx lbft....doesnt mean its that easy or hard to loosen it again !!!!
And yes, often if you tightened to say 30lbft, then tried to go to 40lbft, chances are the wrench wouldnt move any further. It is a pretty small step up.
Or maybe I just use a crappy torque wrench ( quite possible )
AS for the PR length. So you have un-milled heads, and stock rockers, stock block etc.
I cant see why, given you have a gasket some 0.025" thicker than stock, and a camshaft with a smaller base circle ( how much of a lift difference is there between your cam, and a stock one ?? ), why some people say you wouldnt need longer pushrods ? Everything there says you should need longer ones.
Thicker head gasket and cam with smaller base circle, will both require longer PR's
As for the noise.....would lifters that are bottomed out be noisy ?
I know my engine rattles a little, but the piston skirts are pretty small, so I just put it down to piston slap. Doesnt concern me.
For info, Im on stock LS6 block, un-milled Edelbrock heads, 1.7YT's and 7.40 trickflow pushrods, and stock GM MLS gasket at circa 0.050"
My cam has 0.581/0.591 lift....
Not sure how the base circle of that compares to a stock cam.
If your cam has 0.100" smaller base circle, than it stands to reaosn you will need a 0.100" longer PR to make up that difference, all other things being equal.
But. Just because you torque a bolt up to xx lbft....doesnt mean its that easy or hard to loosen it again !!!!
And yes, often if you tightened to say 30lbft, then tried to go to 40lbft, chances are the wrench wouldnt move any further. It is a pretty small step up.
Or maybe I just use a crappy torque wrench ( quite possible )
AS for the PR length. So you have un-milled heads, and stock rockers, stock block etc.
I cant see why, given you have a gasket some 0.025" thicker than stock, and a camshaft with a smaller base circle ( how much of a lift difference is there between your cam, and a stock one ?? ), why some people say you wouldnt need longer pushrods ? Everything there says you should need longer ones.
Thicker head gasket and cam with smaller base circle, will both require longer PR's
As for the noise.....would lifters that are bottomed out be noisy ?
I know my engine rattles a little, but the piston skirts are pretty small, so I just put it down to piston slap. Doesnt concern me.
For info, Im on stock LS6 block, un-milled Edelbrock heads, 1.7YT's and 7.40 trickflow pushrods, and stock GM MLS gasket at circa 0.050"
My cam has 0.581/0.591 lift....
Not sure how the base circle of that compares to a stock cam.
If your cam has 0.100" smaller base circle, than it stands to reaosn you will need a 0.100" longer PR to make up that difference, all other things being equal.
#29
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Well, yes, your pre-load if its that many turns, is way too much ( assuming tightening on the base of the cam lobe )
And yes, the wipe pattern is crap.
I'll admit, mine isnt as measured as it could be. I made up a rough pushrod checker from an old stock pushrod, and used that to check with.
And yes, the wipe pattern is crap.
I'll admit, mine isnt as measured as it could be. I made up a rough pushrod checker from an old stock pushrod, and used that to check with.
#30
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Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
And I dont mean when installing them. I mean when they are already installed. Do you just not check or something??
Again, you need to use the method I posted above when its fully assembled using the bolt turns till seat. Of coarse you can use a dial indicator and magnetic stand etc to come up with the same answer
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Also, the valve tip sweep area with the non adjustable stock rockers will not change with pushrod lengths as long as they are within the lifters range.
You have everything in front of you. Spend 10 minutes to come up with the FACTS.
Dave
Last edited by 99Fbody99; 02-10-2007 at 12:22 PM.
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Really.....
So your saying the sweep area on the valve tip DOES NOT change if you have too long OR short of pushrods with a non adjustable rocker....
Seriously.. I know how to use the search feature. I'm not 4. But remember, the threads would NOT be there to search if people didnt ask questions.
I get your point about it. If your soo bothered about this thread then just dont reply..
Thanks for all your help guys. I've found what I'm looking for. I appreciate it.
Jeff
So your saying the sweep area on the valve tip DOES NOT change if you have too long OR short of pushrods with a non adjustable rocker....
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
Seriously.. I know how to use the search feature. I'm not 4. But remember, the threads would NOT be there to search if people didnt ask questions.
I get your point about it. If your soo bothered about this thread then just dont reply..
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Thanks for all your help guys. I've found what I'm looking for. I appreciate it.
Jeff
Originally Posted by 99Fbody99
You cant!
Again, you need to use the method I posted above when its fully assembled using the bolt turns till seat. Of coarse you can use a dial indicator and magnetic stand etc to come up with the same answer
.
Also, the valve tip sweep area with the non adjustable stock rockers will not change with pushrod lengths as long as they are within the lifters range.
You have everything in front of you. Spend 10 minutes to come up with the FACTS.
Dave
Again, you need to use the method I posted above when its fully assembled using the bolt turns till seat. Of coarse you can use a dial indicator and magnetic stand etc to come up with the same answer
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Also, the valve tip sweep area with the non adjustable stock rockers will not change with pushrod lengths as long as they are within the lifters range.
You have everything in front of you. Spend 10 minutes to come up with the FACTS.
Dave
#33
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I find it entertaining to read your responses to people trying to help you.
But, to answer you question the sweep will not change on the valve tip if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter. It does not matter if ts .025" or .150" preload on the lifter, the sweep is nearly identical with no change because the valve lift is EXACTLY THE SAME and the rocker is in a fixed position!
Second, if they were truly to long they would bottom out inside the lifter and HANG THE VALVES OPEN. Yes, this would be discovered long ago as they will pop and back when this condition exists.
Dave
But, to answer you question the sweep will not change on the valve tip if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter. It does not matter if ts .025" or .150" preload on the lifter, the sweep is nearly identical with no change because the valve lift is EXACTLY THE SAME and the rocker is in a fixed position!
Second, if they were truly to long they would bottom out inside the lifter and HANG THE VALVES OPEN. Yes, this would be discovered long ago as they will pop and back when this condition exists.
Dave
Originally Posted by AMERICAN_HP
Really.....
So your saying the sweep area on the valve tip DOES NOT change if you have too long OR short of pushrods with a non adjustable rocker....
Seriously.. I know how to use the search feature. I'm not 4. But remember, the threads would NOT be there to search if people didnt ask questions.
I get your point about it. If your soo bothered about this thread then just dont reply..
Thanks for all your help guys. I've found what I'm looking for. I appreciate it.
Jeff
So your saying the sweep area on the valve tip DOES NOT change if you have too long OR short of pushrods with a non adjustable rocker....
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
Seriously.. I know how to use the search feature. I'm not 4. But remember, the threads would NOT be there to search if people didnt ask questions.
I get your point about it. If your soo bothered about this thread then just dont reply..
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
Thanks for all your help guys. I've found what I'm looking for. I appreciate it.
Jeff
#34
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I GREATLY appreciate your advice. I just take offense to the sarcastic response. Rather than answering the question, you have to give me your "Role your eyes" one liners..
BUT, Thank you kindly for the info.
Phil, In regards to the lifter cups. What would cause these issues? Could they be the cups that had a slight angle to them? Would that cause the issues?
I will be pulling the heads tonight. I cant seem to get of wok long enough to actually pull them. I'll take a couple of pictures while their in te block and post them for you. Hopefully you can give me a little insight on the issues.
Thanks Bud,
Jeff
BUT, Thank you kindly for the info.
![Chug! Chug! Chug!](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_chug.gif)
Phil, In regards to the lifter cups. What would cause these issues? Could they be the cups that had a slight angle to them? Would that cause the issues?
I will be pulling the heads tonight. I cant seem to get of wok long enough to actually pull them. I'll take a couple of pictures while their in te block and post them for you. Hopefully you can give me a little insight on the issues.
Thanks Bud,
Jeff
Originally Posted by 99Fbody99
I find it entertaining to read your responses to people trying to help you.
But, to answer you question the sweep will not change on the valve tip if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter. It does not matter if ts .025" or .150" preload on the lifter, the sweep is nearly identical with no change because the valve lift is EXACTLY THE SAME and the rocker is in a fixed position!
Second, if they were truly to long they would bottom out inside the lifter and HANG THE VALVES OPEN. Yes, this would be discovered long ago as they will pop and back when this condition exists.
Dave
But, to answer you question the sweep will not change on the valve tip if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter. It does not matter if ts .025" or .150" preload on the lifter, the sweep is nearly identical with no change because the valve lift is EXACTLY THE SAME and the rocker is in a fixed position!
Second, if they were truly to long they would bottom out inside the lifter and HANG THE VALVES OPEN. Yes, this would be discovered long ago as they will pop and back when this condition exists.
Dave
#35
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With a non-adjustable rocker, the wipe pattern is fixed by the height of the fulcrum which in turn is fixed due to the bolt being tight. Changing pushrod length will alter the lifter preload, but will not affect the wipe pattern on the valve stem because it is fixed by the fulcrum. On a fully adjustable rocker such as the Cranes that I run, the pushrod length will determine both wipe and lifter preload.
Best best on re-assembly once your heads come back is to not buy any pushrods until things are back together again. Then use an adjustable pushrod to measure your pushrod length and from that length add the lifter preload.
Also, when you pull the lifters, look under the lifter trays and find out if you have any with a "10" on them, there were some issues with the "10" lifter trays. Since they were cheap, I replaced all mine and sure enough when I got it apart I had a "10".
Best best on re-assembly once your heads come back is to not buy any pushrods until things are back together again. Then use an adjustable pushrod to measure your pushrod length and from that length add the lifter preload.
Also, when you pull the lifters, look under the lifter trays and find out if you have any with a "10" on them, there were some issues with the "10" lifter trays. Since they were cheap, I replaced all mine and sure enough when I got it apart I had a "10".
#36
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Thats great info to know..
Originally Posted by vettenuts
With a non-adjustable rocker, the wipe pattern is fixed by the height of the fulcrum which in turn is fixed due to the bolt being tight. Changing pushrod length will alter the lifter preload, but will not affect the wipe pattern on the valve stem because it is fixed by the fulcrum. On a fully adjustable rocker such as the Cranes that I run, the pushrod length will determine both wipe and lifter preload.
Best best on re-assembly once your heads come back is to not buy any pushrods until things are back together again. Then use an adjustable pushrod to measure your pushrod length and from that length add the lifter preload.
Also, when you pull the lifters, look under the lifter trays and find out if you have any with a "10" on them, there were some issues with the "10" lifter trays. Since they were cheap, I replaced all mine and sure enough when I got it apart I had a "10".
Best best on re-assembly once your heads come back is to not buy any pushrods until things are back together again. Then use an adjustable pushrod to measure your pushrod length and from that length add the lifter preload.
Also, when you pull the lifters, look under the lifter trays and find out if you have any with a "10" on them, there were some issues with the "10" lifter trays. Since they were cheap, I replaced all mine and sure enough when I got it apart I had a "10".
#38
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I'm curious now. On my new motor with Dart haed's i installed the stock pushrod's and marked the top of the valve stem and with the stock rocker's on I turned the engine over by hand and it showed the wipe pattern over to one side and then when I got a longer pushrod it wiped the valve in the center where it is supposed to be.?? I do not understand how different pushrod lenght's don't change the wear pattern on the valve tip.It changed my wear pattern? ![Driving](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_driving3.gif)
I read how to check pushrod lenght on this Forum!
![Driving](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_driving3.gif)
I read how to check pushrod lenght on this Forum!
#39
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Originally Posted by 99Fbody99
I find it entertaining to read your responses to people trying to help you.
But, to answer you question the sweep will not change on the valve tip if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter. It does not matter if ts .025" or .150" preload on the lifter, the sweep is nearly identical with no change because the valve lift is EXACTLY THE SAME and the rocker is in a fixed position!
Second, if they were truly to long they would bottom out inside the lifter and HANG THE VALVES OPEN. Yes, this would be discovered long ago as they will pop and back when this condition exists.
Dave
But, to answer you question the sweep will not change on the valve tip if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter. It does not matter if ts .025" or .150" preload on the lifter, the sweep is nearly identical with no change because the valve lift is EXACTLY THE SAME and the rocker is in a fixed position!
Second, if they were truly to long they would bottom out inside the lifter and HANG THE VALVES OPEN. Yes, this would be discovered long ago as they will pop and back when this condition exists.
Dave
![Driving](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_driving3.gif)
#40
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I think the key item here is You could install pushrods that may appear to work, but they could still fall outside the recommended tolerance specs of the lifter.
But if there is a mad head/valve/rocker geometry in the first place, altering pushrod length will nver cure that.
Unless its also in conjunction with lifting or raising the rocker platform itself as required.
if the pushrods are within the operating range of the lifter
But if there is a mad head/valve/rocker geometry in the first place, altering pushrod length will nver cure that.
Unless its also in conjunction with lifting or raising the rocker platform itself as required.