Is tire width as important as we think it is?
07-17-2007, 10:54 AM
#81
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
The longer something is the easier it is to distort.
err.. wait.
maybe construction and composition comes into play too... hmm.. perhaps.
(btw, this is better then my original smart *** reply... i was going to point out how the longer my ***** grows the harder it is to distort.. but i dont like to talk about distorted penises.. (penii??))
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
A taller skinnier tire has long and skinny treads. A fat tire has thicker and shorter treads.
unless you mean the contact patch.
if you want to discuss contact patches, then you'll find theres a shitload of misconceptions in this thread.
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Distortion means the contact patch will NOT BE CONTRIBUATING IN THE EFFECTED AREAS.
really, this is an overall silly statement.
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Hence a fatter shorter tire is better than a taller skinnier tire for racing.
i know.. you're expecting me to point out all the drag cars this doesnt apply to.
HA! im not going to point that out.
go lookup grand touring cars. you'll find they run rubberband thin tires like you think are so awesome... welll they USED to run them.. they were going bigger and bigger on the rim size.. then they realized.. there is an overkill point thats easily reached with todays tires.
nowdays, they all race on 17s and some 18s... with a good chuck of sidewall in there.
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
The steering effect from the fatter tire will be minimal and preferable.
you should go out racing. they've been looking for someone with your absolute knowledge.
btw not only is some deflection desirable, but its needed... and not only that, but it can make a car "feel good" and rotate in a corner..
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Imagine a tall skinny tire getting a bunch of S curves in its tread pattern. Same thing will even happen to slicks to an extent.
i honestly dont know what the **** you think you're talking about.
at first i was thinking.. maybe he keeps saying that and means the contact patch.. fine.. hes not an expert or anything.. he just has some terms wrong.
then i kept reading.... "same thing happens to slicks to an extent"?!? mmk.. he DOES mean that tread.
WTF does he even think hes talking about.. why the hell is he even trying to reply to something that involves him talking way over his head? why do people post about things they obviously have no experience about, and then post without even thinking it thru??
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Carroll Smith has a 20 ish page arguement over this if you wish to read it. I read it years ago. That's all I could remember to paraphase. Good argruement though.
heres a better idea... instead of incorrectly paraphrasing it, try googling it, finding it, and just linking it here.
07-17-2007, 12:35 PM
#82
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Wow....should you be talking about ignorance? Your diction seems to say you aren't much of the standard genious. By chance, are years of watching crappy TV to blame? I am sorry. Without an organized, non-fingerpointing arguement who is to listen to you????
i guess you think some of Fry has rubbed off on me...
dont talk about "subject changes" and that kind of argumentative BS when you start out with it yourself. LOL.
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
If the tyre compresses [due to straight line accel] it will have two ways to distort. lift up from the surface and buddle normal from the road surface. Or will bundle in small curves parellel to the road surface. Either way you have less rubber to provide an acceleration.
and thats sooo exact to.
thanks for telling me exactly how it works.
you should be on TV telling this stuff... i hear there are people that watch that thing!
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
wwwwwwwww like that. That would be an S curve. It willl distort in a small wavy pattern [small scale] with the treads in a large curve. [large scale]
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Go look up some info yourself. Oh, haven't heard of a bound collection of leafs? Yes, leafs. Don't you know your Dewy Decimal system? I thought you might reconize that quote living in TV land and all. I guess you like to have others do all the work for you. The book in question is not on the internet in electronic form and I didn't scan it in. Go buy it yourself and read it: "Tuning to Win."
seriously though, the book says on the fugging cover... "the ART and science of race car development and tuning"
note the ART part.
stop spewing absolute BS... lol. that was my whole point... you going off on a THIS IS HOW IT IS tangent.
btw for the record, that book was sitting on my dads bookshelf since before i was born.. the damn thing was printed in the 70s... i still remember the cover...had thoes cool marlboro race cars on it.
the irony of this is.. you're insulting me for not reading.. then quoting off a 30 year old book that i happened to have read before i even had a drivers license.
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Bashing an arguement doesn't win you a prize. Only finding the correct theory does that. This is especially the case because you are a skeptic with no answers to questions yet you raise them simply to get attention. People like that are often in politics because you take advantage of others' trust. Oh!! I have the answers and this guy is wrong. It's his fault. I have a plan of action but I am not telling anyone how it really is until I get my way.
my last post wasnt intended to do anything but make the reader (and you) think about how stupid and "absolute" answer is....
i made Zero attempt at explaining why or how.... because frankly, my advice is on a case-by case basis.
on my bike, i prefer a THINNER rear tire, for handling.
on my camaro, i have a wide but TALL tire... for traction and shock asorbtion..
on my spitfire, im running 14" alloys with larger dia goodyear rubber, because even though i get hit with a gearing issue, and its taller, the sidewall is stiffer on the pesudo-slicks then on the thinner profile autoX treads... plus the compound is much softer.
theres three totally diffrent ones, without even bringing up anyone else's vehicle. just my own.
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Besides that you guys keep overgeneralising because you are mentioning types of racing where the tyres are asked to perform in multiple area while you keep trying to apply the optimal diemsions of a tyre for one situation.
you go say X is better.
better?
you can NEVER say something is better when it comes to cars. everything is a compromise. the word better shows nothing but ignorance...
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
In the real world, engineering is all about comprimize and cost. When you have a situation that demands multiple functions out of the same device you must make changes even if they will lead to questioning.
and thats about the only thing i can agree with you on... its also why you cant be so absolute like you intended in your previous reply.
07-17-2007, 12:38 PM
#83
for the record... absolute BS used above is referring to the
"thats the absolute answer" things.... im referring to them as BS.
not shorthand for "everything you're saying is absolute bullshit"....
id edit my post, but i doubt i could restrain myself from making stupid remarks in the comment section. lol.
"thats the absolute answer" things.... im referring to them as BS.
not shorthand for "everything you're saying is absolute bullshit"....
id edit my post, but i doubt i could restrain myself from making stupid remarks in the comment section. lol.
07-17-2007, 04:19 PM
#84
Congrats. You have stooped to levels of stupidity and bashness of which I could never hope to degrade myself to. I applaud you on your showsmanship. 
Now, don't pat youself on the back yet. You may think yourself the Defender of the Fourms. A Πλάτων of his own right --- One has to but glance at your words to know the truth. You post out of malintentions. I don't understand by what means people should hold you up to the light. How are you their champion?
Claiming that others have no legitimate right to post in your beserker/McArthur style? He RUINED his career BTW. Ponder upon this.
-----------------------------------------
Those are called Can AM cars FYI. You are welcome to stop mucking up the thread at any moment. You have stated and refirmed your points many times. Hope that makes you feel like a man. Going off topic while not contributing to this thread is AGAINST THE RULES. I am suprised someone hasn't already posted in telling you to STFU.
Please feel free to take your bulshit elsewhere and stop destroying what is supposed to be a serious forum. If you want to argue like a kiddy go to a different site. Or if you have to at bare minimum, PM your hate-a-thon. I am going to delete my post now to clean up the thread even if it makes me look worse.
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You looked up the reprint of that book online. I have the orginal release of this book. The orginal cover from the 1970s had a CAN AM car on it. It was dark red and the photo was in B&K. If your book was printed in the 1970s why would it not have that type of car if it interested him more?
To further re-enforce what a piece of **** you are check out your feedback:
Negative Never received the item but payed for it (2 months ago) Buyer INFERNO (2) 03-10-2006
LYER!!
I applaud you on your showsmanship. Now, don't pat youself on the back yet. You may think yourself the Defender of the Fourms. A Πλάτων of his own right --- One has to but glance at your words to know the truth. You post out of malintentions. I don't understand by what means people should hold you up to the light. How are you their champion?
Claiming that others have no legitimate right to post in your beserker/McArthur style? He RUINED his career BTW. Ponder upon this.
-----------------------------------------
Those are called Can AM cars FYI. You are welcome to stop mucking up the thread at any moment. You have stated and refirmed your points many times. Hope that makes you feel like a man. Going off topic while not contributing to this thread is AGAINST THE RULES. I am suprised someone hasn't already posted in telling you to STFU.
Please feel free to take your bulshit elsewhere and stop destroying what is supposed to be a serious forum. If you want to argue like a kiddy go to a different site. Or if you have to at bare minimum, PM your hate-a-thon. I am going to delete my post now to clean up the thread even if it makes me look worse.
--------------------------
You looked up the reprint of that book online. I have the orginal release of this book. The orginal cover from the 1970s had a CAN AM car on it. It was dark red and the photo was in B&K. If your book was printed in the 1970s why would it not have that type of car if it interested him more?
To further re-enforce what a piece of **** you are check out your feedback:
Negative Never received the item but payed for it (2 months ago) Buyer INFERNO (2) 03-10-2006
LYER!!
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; 07-21-2007 at 05:19 PM.
07-18-2007, 08:47 AM
#85
Originally Posted by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed
Congrats. You have stooped to levels of stupidity and bashness of which I could never hope to degrade myself to. I applaud you on your showsmanship.
Now, don't pat youself on the back yet. You may think yourself the Defender of the Fourms. A Πλάτων of his own right --- One has to but glance at your words to know the truth. You post out of malintentions. I don't understand by what means people should hold you up to the light. How are you their champion?
Claiming that others have no legitimate right to post in your beserker/McArthur style? He RUINED his career BTW. Ponder upon this.
-----------------------------------------
Those are called Can AM cars FYI. You are welcome to stop mucking up the thread at any moment. You have stated and refirmed your points many times. Hope that makes you feel like a man. Going off topic while not contributing to this thread is AGAINST THE RULES. I am suprised someone hasn't already posted in telling you to STFU.
Please feel free to take your bulshit elsewhere and stop destroying what is supposed to be a serious forum. If you want to argue like a kiddy go to a different site. Or if you have to at bare minimum, PM your hate-a-thon. I am going to delete my post now to clean up the thread even if it makes me look worse.
I applaud you on your showsmanship. Now, don't pat youself on the back yet. You may think yourself the Defender of the Fourms. A Πλάτων of his own right --- One has to but glance at your words to know the truth. You post out of malintentions. I don't understand by what means people should hold you up to the light. How are you their champion?
Claiming that others have no legitimate right to post in your beserker/McArthur style? He RUINED his career BTW. Ponder upon this.
-----------------------------------------
Those are called Can AM cars FYI. You are welcome to stop mucking up the thread at any moment. You have stated and refirmed your points many times. Hope that makes you feel like a man. Going off topic while not contributing to this thread is AGAINST THE RULES. I am suprised someone hasn't already posted in telling you to STFU.
Please feel free to take your bulshit elsewhere and stop destroying what is supposed to be a serious forum. If you want to argue like a kiddy go to a different site. Or if you have to at bare minimum, PM your hate-a-thon. I am going to delete my post now to clean up the thread even if it makes me look worse.
90% of this thread is just stupid arguments anyway.. but whatever..
btw, i dont think it was a can-am car on the cover.. it was an open wheel marbrlo colored car... im just going off memory, but i think it was a formula1 car.. probably Fittipaldi's... if my timeline is right.... not positive on that... but i do have a good mental image of the book cover.
07-18-2007, 04:34 PM
#86
Teching In
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Originally Posted by Cheatin' Chad
The guy made points every bit if not more valid than yours and you reply with this?
You stated in a previous post:Even in the curves I dont beleive the wider tires help, the shorter sidewall does.
IF shorter sidewalls are superior to larger sidewalls then why do F1 cars not use rubber band sized sidewalls? I'll tell you why: Because for that application a relatively LARGER sidewall is better for handling. THIS is FACT. Ferrari spends upwards of 160million a year on testing. Both Bridgestone and Michelin have spent millions testing tires alone and they all have come to the conclusion that IN THIS APPLICATION a relatively larger sidewall is better for handling.
Due to this post your credibility on this topic is damaged. Please stop with the attacks and unfounded accusations. Merely spouting off equations and name dropping isn't going to impress anyone or give people answers.
Thank you.
You stated in a previous post:Even in the curves I dont beleive the wider tires help, the shorter sidewall does.
IF shorter sidewalls are superior to larger sidewalls then why do F1 cars not use rubber band sized sidewalls? I'll tell you why: Because for that application a relatively LARGER sidewall is better for handling. THIS is FACT. Ferrari spends upwards of 160million a year on testing. Both Bridgestone and Michelin have spent millions testing tires alone and they all have come to the conclusion that IN THIS APPLICATION a relatively larger sidewall is better for handling.
Due to this post your credibility on this topic is damaged. Please stop with the attacks and unfounded accusations. Merely spouting off equations and name dropping isn't going to impress anyone or give people answers.
Thank you.
Stan
07-19-2007, 07:53 AM
#89
Staging Lane
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Originally Posted by mudflap1989
I guess that I forgot because I thought that "N" in F=uN was the weight of the car. Or more specifically the weight of the car over each individual tire.
I remember when I was a first year student, kinda a lot of
since then. I also thought I was God's gift to cars until I got into 3rd year and took a lot of classes about vehicle dynamics.Intheclouds1977 and MadBill hit the nail on the head there are a sh*tload of factors that come into play for determining traction.
MPE you need to read more carefully what the equations mean before posting something "technical" about them. In the equation F = mu*N, mu is the friction coefficient between two parallel flat surfaces. This equation also only looks at impending slip and sliding. Anything with a rotational shear force shatters the equation, like a factory 10 bolt. Nice try but you are one of the reasons people think all engineering students are deficient in common sense and know it alls.
