hydrogen
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Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: everywhere
hydrogen anone know of anyone who has got a magdrive hydrogen generator on board? i know a guy with a northstar and he said it works great..just kinda worried about "testing" it on my new ls2 lol
6 & 8 Second Club
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From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
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Just read a great article today. It said hydrogen will be the fuel for the future. I would be willing to do whatever it takes to get this done. The problem they said that is holding us back from being 100% petro free is distribution. They also said, biodiesel is the best 2nd choice. Good luck & every little bit helps.
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Just read a great article today. It said hydrogen will be the fuel for the future. I would be willing to do whatever it takes to get this done. The problem they said that is holding us back from being 100% petro free is distribution. They also said, biodiesel is the best 2nd choice. Good luck & every little bit helps.
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Hydrogen is really cool for fuel and whatnot but the manufacturing and logistics standpoints are a nightmare. What happens when a truck full of hydrogen gets in an accident? I suppose you could manufacture it all on site at the dist. center (gas station) but that wouldn't make it very cost effective. I'm down for alternative fuels but at the current trend we're moving it'll be 10-15 years before we see a hydrogen distribuition center/hydrogen powered car. I would actually be quite interested in seeing more e-85 stations around here but it seems like most Texas conservatives would rather feed their own pockets with their oil trusts.
I guess the point of the magdrive hydrogen generator is to produce it onboard so you don't have to worry about some of the issues I posted, I just can't imagine it being very efficient if you're doing it on demand.
I guess the point of the magdrive hydrogen generator is to produce it onboard so you don't have to worry about some of the issues I posted, I just can't imagine it being very efficient if you're doing it on demand.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2006
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Probably less excitement than if a truck full of gasoline gets in an accident. Gasoline has this nasty habit of pooling on the ground while waiting around for enough oxygen to burn. Hydrogen, on the other hand, rises rapidly into the air, where it generally causes less trouble if it ignites. A burning plume of hydrogen doesn't even look all that spectacular, since it is nearly invisible.
Anytime you have readily convertible energy of a content and density roughly equivalent to that of a tankfull of gasoline -- whether that enegy is stored in gasoline, hydrogen, batteries, flywheels, whatever -- there is potential for danger. The danger potential of that much hydrogen, however, is not of a different magnitude from an equivalent amount of gasoline. It is just realized in different but no less manageable ways.
Anytime you have readily convertible energy of a content and density roughly equivalent to that of a tankfull of gasoline -- whether that enegy is stored in gasoline, hydrogen, batteries, flywheels, whatever -- there is potential for danger. The danger potential of that much hydrogen, however, is not of a different magnitude from an equivalent amount of gasoline. It is just realized in different but no less manageable ways.
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Probably less excitement than if a truck full of gasoline gets in an accident. Gasoline has this nasty habit of pooling on the ground while waiting around for enough oxygen to burn. Hydrogen, on the other hand, rises rapidly into the air, where it generally causes less trouble if it ignites. A burning plume of hydrogen doesn't even look all that spectacular, since it is nearly invisible.
Anytime you have readily convertible energy of a content and density roughly equivalent to that of a tankfull of gasoline -- whether that enegy is stored in gasoline, hydrogen, batteries, flywheels, whatever -- there is potential for danger. The danger potential of that much hydrogen, however, is not of a different magnitude from an equivalent amount of gasoline. It is just realized in different but no less manageable ways.
Anytime you have readily convertible energy of a content and density roughly equivalent to that of a tankfull of gasoline -- whether that enegy is stored in gasoline, hydrogen, batteries, flywheels, whatever -- there is potential for danger. The danger potential of that much hydrogen, however, is not of a different magnitude from an equivalent amount of gasoline. It is just realized in different but no less manageable ways.
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Umm... the hydrogen car is here guys... http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/ Available only in southern cali the honda FCX Clarity
Probably less excitement than if a truck full of gasoline gets in an accident. Gasoline has this nasty habit of pooling on the ground while waiting around for enough oxygen to burn. Hydrogen, on the other hand, rises rapidly into the air, where it generally causes less trouble if it ignites. A burning plume of hydrogen doesn't even look all that spectacular, since it is nearly invisible.
Anytime you have readily convertible energy of a content and density roughly equivalent to that of a tankfull of gasoline -- whether that enegy is stored in gasoline, hydrogen, batteries, flywheels, whatever -- there is potential for danger. The danger potential of that much hydrogen, however, is not of a different magnitude from an equivalent amount of gasoline. It is just realized in different but no less manageable ways.
Anytime you have readily convertible energy of a content and density roughly equivalent to that of a tankfull of gasoline -- whether that enegy is stored in gasoline, hydrogen, batteries, flywheels, whatever -- there is potential for danger. The danger potential of that much hydrogen, however, is not of a different magnitude from an equivalent amount of gasoline. It is just realized in different but no less manageable ways.
If it was one a truck you have the protection of the frame.
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We must understand alt fuels are an answer to the problems of society; all different types of people just trying to get from point A to point B. It is not a replacement hot rod.
We know alt fuel cars aren't going to make 187kW of power for your spirted driving needs. They probably won't even make 55kW. But the best fuel efficency comes from vehicles making minimal power.
TECH Enthusiast
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From: On a car lot, shopping...
Slightly off topic, but do you know what the by product of a hydrogen car is? Water vapor.
Guess what water vapor is a greenhouse gas, too! In fact it is even more likely to hold in heat due to the heavier nature of water vapor. There isn't a good solution for dino oil cars yet. Except possibly electric and only if it was produced by a wind or solar powered plant.
Guess what water vapor is a greenhouse gas, too! In fact it is even more likely to hold in heat due to the heavier nature of water vapor. There isn't a good solution for dino oil cars yet. Except possibly electric and only if it was produced by a wind or solar powered plant.
Last edited by ws6gluemaker; Dec 23, 2007 at 02:58 AM.
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2007
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Slightly off topic, but do you know what the by product of a hydrogen car is? Water vapor.
Guess what water vapor is a greenhouse gas, too! In fact it is even more likely to hold in heat due to the heavier nature of water vapor. There isn't a good solution for dino oil cars yet. Except possibly electric and only if it was produced by a wind or solar powered plant.
Guess what water vapor is a greenhouse gas, too! In fact it is even more likely to hold in heat due to the heavier nature of water vapor. There isn't a good solution for dino oil cars yet. Except possibly electric and only if it was produced by a wind or solar powered plant.
^^What he said. Honda has really come up with something though. Home refueling, and the refueling station in your home provides heat and electric elimates alot. And hydrogren can be made through the synthesis of water to split apart the molecules, and the biproduct is water...
Slightly off topic, but do you know what the by product of a hydrogen car is? Water vapor.
Guess what water vapor is a greenhouse gas, too! In fact it is even more likely to hold in heat due to the heavier nature of water vapor. There isn't a good solution for dino oil cars yet. Except possibly electric and only if it was produced by a wind or solar powered plant.
Guess what water vapor is a greenhouse gas, too! In fact it is even more likely to hold in heat due to the heavier nature of water vapor. There isn't a good solution for dino oil cars yet. Except possibly electric and only if it was produced by a wind or solar powered plant.
Yes water vapour does hold heat and if 100% of us used hydrogren there would still be problems but what is the rule?
Water vapour drops out with altitude. That is why rain can't get acrost mountains. Mountains significantly lower than the O-Zone.
Most people are worried about the chemisty of burning exhuast. Particularly in countries with lean burn leading up alot of N0X's --->>> acid rain. Also, Hydrogen cars won't produce photochemical smogs that plague cities today.
Besides, more Atmospheric Moisture means those California Thermals will be even higher.
One note further. Electrical cars are better even if fueled by the same gas but from the power plant. This is because electrical generation from a large plant is efficent. High Voltage Transmission is efficent. Electrical power to mechnical energy is 60%...Cars are what? 30%? This explains the allure that so many science minds feel towards the electric car. That is combined with the fact they will make little noise and localise pollution to point sources only!
Still the electric car just doesn't work. Not yet!
Last edited by 2002_Z28_Six_Speed; Dec 23, 2007 at 07:24 PM.
TECH Enthusiast
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From: On a car lot, shopping...
Water vapor is not 'heavy'. To retain buoyancy with the air, It's own density would have to be at/below that of air. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas but, unlike other greenhouse gases, it will condense back into water at a certain saturation point and eventually fall out of the sky - not so for Co2 and the like.
Water vapor is also a potent greenhouse gas. Because the water vapor content of the atmosphere is expected to greatly increase in response to warmer temperatures, there is the potential for a water vapor feedback that could amplify the expected climate warming effect due to increased carbon dioxide alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_vapor
Sounds like it can have a run away chain reaction if too much water vapor is released into the atmosphere. What would happen if everyone in Cali started driving hydrogen cars? Monsoons in the Mojave? It could still be a man made El Nino.
Wind and Solar or perhaps geothermal energy may be the best short term answers.
In case wikipedia is not a good enough source:
http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/mockler.html
a quote from the above source:
There are many atmospheric greenhouse gases, some naturally occurring and some resulting from industrial activities, but probably the most important greenhouse gas is water vapor. Water vapor is involved in an important climate feedback loop. As the temperature of the Earth's surface and atmosphere increases, the atmosphere is able to hold more water vapor. The additional water vapor, acting as a greenhouse gas, absorbs energy that would otherwise escape to space and so causes further warming. This basic picture is complicated by important interactions between water vapor, clouds, atmospheric motion, and radiation from both the Sun and the Earth. There are some aspects of the role of water vapor as a greenhouse gas that are not well understood, again mainly because we lack the necessary observations to test theoretical models
Or this from the National Geographic:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...0_warming.html
The latest villain on global warming's most-wanted list is all wet—and a little surprising. Water vapor, experts say, is the culprit behind Europe's rapidly rising temperatures.Evaporated H2O is a known greenhouse gas—a gas that absorbs and re-emits infrared radiation in Earth's atmosphere, thereby increasing temperatures (see our global warming fast facts).
But only now has a study uncovered evidence that water vapor is a major public enemy in Europe.
According to a team of Swiss scientists, heat from other greenhouse gases is causing more water to evaporate, releasing the vapor into the atmosphere above Europe. That vapor in turn, adds to the greenhouse effect, further warming the region.
Last edited by ws6gluemaker; Dec 23, 2007 at 10:19 PM.
i remember jsut recently reading something on a website about a guy that created a motor that ran on water/hydrogen, and it procuded it onboard very efficiently. it got something like 100 mpg and could run on any water, rain water / tap water / whatever. he said on a single tank of water he could run like almost across the country, and he had a car of sorts that was running on it without any problems. and this was back in the 70's. there was one airing of it on a news station but then it was shut down really quick. mysteriously the guy was posioned at a local restaurant... i will try to find the link again and post it up. the original news story was on there two. maybe someone can chime in and knows what i'm talking about.
There are some cars in Iceland running on hydro and including a full time Bus driven 18hrs a day
We have the first hydro "gas" station and in a few years there will be more of them but after MANY years there will be an increase in hydro cars that could be a beginning of a revolution but IMO might be 30years till then
We have the first hydro "gas" station and in a few years there will be more of them but after MANY years there will be an increase in hydro cars that could be a beginning of a revolution but IMO might be 30years till then
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
It all depends on the outcome of the Energy Return on Energy Invested equation ... and to the degree that the production of hydrogen fuels would be tied to the consumption of fossil fuels. The construction of the infrastructure needed to produce, store and transport such fuels in sufficient quantity to significantly offset fossil fuel use would in itself require a staggering energy investment. It doesn't pencil out just yet ...
The other day my uncle was talking about a hydrogen car Honda will be releasing soon that gets 68MPG. He also explained that you may be able to generate the Hydrogen at home, which could do away with the taxes. I believe they are going to experiment in CA as the infrastructure is/will be ready soon. Still have to research it further, but it sounds promising.