Ram Air Does Work...did Some Playing Around
05-23-2008, 05:35 PM
#41
If you even saw .2 of PRESSURE in the box, the engine has to work LESS to pull in the charge. It is keeping the box full of available air.
Why is it SO hard for people to understand or grasp this??
I have an old style LT1 WS6 box sealed to the hood, I believe it DOES work.
I have been fought tooth and nail on this board that ram air is bullshit, a hoax and numerous other names.
David
Why is it SO hard for people to understand or grasp this??
I have an old style LT1 WS6 box sealed to the hood, I believe it DOES work.
I have been fought tooth and nail on this board that ram air is bullshit, a hoax and numerous other names.
David
05-24-2008, 05:09 PM
#42
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/924996-my-ram-air-vs-stock-setup-how-much-hp-dif-track-results-tom.html
did another track test...gained 25rwhp over stock...proven...setup works...now try and prove a k&n fipk is going to make that that kind of hp...i dont think so...
did another track test...gained 25rwhp over stock...proven...setup works...now try and prove a k&n fipk is going to make that that kind of hp...i dont think so...
05-27-2008, 06:10 PM
#45
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I'm pleased to see your results, now I'd just like to see multiple tests performed to ensure that this was not an anomoly. One test is never good enough. The test results need to be duplicated by either yourself, or by someone else. Even if this was an anomoly, ram air still looks badass.
05-27-2008, 07:25 PM
#46
I'm pleased to see your results, now I'd just like to see multiple tests performed to ensure that this was not an anomoly. One test is never good enough. The test results need to be duplicated by either yourself, or by someone else. Even if this was an anomoly, ram air still looks badass.
05-27-2008, 09:23 PM
#47
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I'd like to see someone else duplicate your results. I'm not trying to argue with you or your results, in fact it's nice to see such results. I would, however, like to see multiple tests with similar results. What's more compelling: One test with positive results, or 10 tests with similar results and a small standard deviation?
Just about everything is a bell curve. I'd like to see if your results are toward the peak of the bell curve or if they're on the high end or even if they're on the low end. This would give a much better picture of the gains from a ram air setup.
Just about everything is a bell curve. I'd like to see if your results are toward the peak of the bell curve or if they're on the high end or even if they're on the low end. This would give a much better picture of the gains from a ram air setup.
06-03-2008, 12:09 AM
#48
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Sux2bu gained .1 and 1mph with an extra 125lbs and worse air over the FTRA. So his setup gains about 20+rwhp. Madman made a big gulp for the sixspeedinc car and they picked up about 2mph. Ram air definitely works
07-01-2008, 10:36 AM
#51
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I figured I would chime in on this. I ran across this article a few weeks ago. You have to bear with the article as it was written so riceboyz could read it, however the techniques are sound and scientific.
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
the good part starts in part 3
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0646
in part 5 he has actual test data on how well ram air works. (he dropped his losses by .25 psi)
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0663
Unfortunately his mods eventually caused knocking to develope so he ended up loosing power in the end. But a simple fix such as putting the screen back in front of his MAF would fix this.
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
the good part starts in part 3
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0646
in part 5 he has actual test data on how well ram air works. (he dropped his losses by .25 psi)
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0663
Unfortunately his mods eventually caused knocking to develope so he ended up loosing power in the end. But a simple fix such as putting the screen back in front of his MAF would fix this.
Last edited by ConnClark; 07-01-2008 at 11:20 AM.
07-04-2008, 09:02 AM
#53
nice post was pretty good...i basically did the same thing to an extent just spent like 1hr on day...his was alot more indepth...
finally everyone can see the vaccum i am talking about in the intake without ram air...
finally everyone can see the vaccum i am talking about in the intake without ram air...
I figured I would chime in on this. I ran across this article a few weeks ago. You have to bear with the article as it was written so riceboyz could read it, however the techniques are sound and scientific.
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
the good part starts in part 3
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0646
in part 5 he has actual test data on how well ram air works. (he dropped his losses by .25 psi)
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0663
Unfortunately his mods eventually caused knocking to develope so he ended up loosing power in the end. But a simple fix such as putting the screen back in front of his MAF would fix this.
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629
the good part starts in part 3
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0646
in part 5 he has actual test data on how well ram air works. (he dropped his losses by .25 psi)
http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0663
Unfortunately his mods eventually caused knocking to develope so he ended up loosing power in the end. But a simple fix such as putting the screen back in front of his MAF would fix this.
07-11-2008, 07:12 PM
#54
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Could the better times and power be from colder air? What if you used your ram air to keep the air box cool? I haven't done any power or time studies but my engine stays cooler using my ram air hood as a heat extractor rather than using it as forced air.
07-14-2008, 10:04 AM
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I basically skimmed the other thread, but I see it's a bottom mounted scoop made for a camaro. I also saw lots of WS6 guys asking for one - that was a little disturbing.
How does this compare to
- 1 - a stock WS6 set up
- 2 - a debaffled stock WS6 setup
- 3 - a sealed and fully opened, debaffled WS6 (or SLP HO or Firehawk hood) setup (ie, where all 4 holes, or equivalent area, are used for taking air directly into the lid, which is sealed to it)
?
The area of the home made unit looks about equivalent to a stock WS6 hood opening (2 upper holes). But the WS6 also gets air from underneath as well. And if the lower 2 are cut out to be active as well, that ups the opening area, and it's in an ideal location as well. (not least of which because it's a straight shot, no bends required)
How does this compare to
- 1 - a stock WS6 set up
- 2 - a debaffled stock WS6 setup
- 3 - a sealed and fully opened, debaffled WS6 (or SLP HO or Firehawk hood) setup (ie, where all 4 holes, or equivalent area, are used for taking air directly into the lid, which is sealed to it)
?
The area of the home made unit looks about equivalent to a stock WS6 hood opening (2 upper holes). But the WS6 also gets air from underneath as well. And if the lower 2 are cut out to be active as well, that ups the opening area, and it's in an ideal location as well. (not least of which because it's a straight shot, no bends required)
07-14-2008, 11:46 AM
#56
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The "Ram air" setups that seal off the front of the air box and run up underneath are bullshit, and marketing ploys at best. I've tested them both, back to back at the track. Same car, same day. Done this on a few cars actually. Never seen a gain over a FRA mod w/ a lid. I actually lost 2 mph on a personal vehicle once using a "Ram air" that sealed off the air box. And putting anything in front of the rad./condenser is not a good idea either. Every car I've ever installed a Ram air kit on ram at least 5-8 degrees hotter.
The most efficient way to get air into the air box is NOT to seal off the damn thing. Open up the bottom of the air box, take out all those bullshit plastic panels in front of the condenser, swiss cheese the front of the air box so more air can travel into the box from the front, and call it a day.
The only true "Ram Air" is having air rammed directly into the hood, with an open air element behind it receiving the air. IE: WS6 hood with no baffles.
The most efficient way to get air into the air box is NOT to seal off the damn thing. Open up the bottom of the air box, take out all those bullshit plastic panels in front of the condenser, swiss cheese the front of the air box so more air can travel into the box from the front, and call it a day.
The only true "Ram Air" is having air rammed directly into the hood, with an open air element behind it receiving the air. IE: WS6 hood with no baffles.
Well now, I don't have A/C. So now I don't have that condenser blazing heat right in that area. With the set up like Chris has (I built my own based on his) we don't run A/C. Thats why cooling the radiator isn't a problem.
Those ones you buy are real small. Most of them don't go all the way to the bottom by the air dam. The ones we built have pretty much everything cut out and removed from the air dam to the air box. There are no leaks or bottle necks in these. Just a big straight shot for it to pick up air. I beleive thats why his will see gains like this and one you bought wont. They are two widely different peices.
Somebody ahead stated something about how this doesn't apply to stock cars. It doesn't matter if its stock or not. It should see a gain. The more heavily modified the larger the gain. Spraying I hope to see 130+ in the quarter, that should equate to a nice gain over stock I would think.
What Junior said -
"Simply and logically explained .. a neg. pressure behind the filter while the motor is running indicates the motor is demanding more air than what's available (hence, the vacuum). When there's more air available than what's demanded by the motor, then a + pressure will be seen. So, if you have a neg. pressure, at all, in front of the throttle blade .. your motor is not making as much power as it would otherwise (w/ a + pressure). 0 (equal to atmosphere) pressure would indicatate absolute balance of availability and demand. If the OP is seeing a + just behind the filter .. his car is making more power than if he seen a - .. pure and simple."
Somebody go ahead and delete all the worthless posts this thread is filled with, make that bold, and lock this thread.
07-19-2008, 07:58 AM
#58
this is the best way to recieve air to the car, much easier to seal than a ws6 hood with the baffles out...i would agree that it does produce some ram air but not to the extend of this intake or a sux2bu style...
as for having more openings that doesnt really help...the pressure is only as high as its weakest link...
ie is\f you had three lines that ran to a tank one with 10psi another with 2 psi and a final one with 5psi....how much pressure do you think is in the tank...assumming lines can be run either way...like our intake paths...pressure will go the path of least resistence...
there is not going to be 17psi in the tank...there wont even be 10psi in there cause that pressure will try to balance out the lower 2 & 5 psi lines...and even to an extent the 5psi will try to balance out the 2psi too...for simplicity say the lines are the same ID...the pressure would be close to 5.6psi...
so would have been better off just running the 10psi line by itself...ie my system...because the rest will just blead off without proper sealing...ie the front stock slit under the lid...
as for having more openings that doesnt really help...the pressure is only as high as its weakest link...
ie is\f you had three lines that ran to a tank one with 10psi another with 2 psi and a final one with 5psi....how much pressure do you think is in the tank...assumming lines can be run either way...like our intake paths...pressure will go the path of least resistence...
there is not going to be 17psi in the tank...there wont even be 10psi in there cause that pressure will try to balance out the lower 2 & 5 psi lines...and even to an extent the 5psi will try to balance out the 2psi too...for simplicity say the lines are the same ID...the pressure would be close to 5.6psi...
so would have been better off just running the 10psi line by itself...ie my system...because the rest will just blead off without proper sealing...ie the front stock slit under the lid...
I basically skimmed the other thread, but I see it's a bottom mounted scoop made for a camaro. I also saw lots of WS6 guys asking for one - that was a little disturbing.
How does this compare to
- 1 - a stock WS6 set up
- 2 - a debaffled stock WS6 setup
- 3 - a sealed and fully opened, debaffled WS6 (or SLP HO or Firehawk hood) setup (ie, where all 4 holes, or equivalent area, are used for taking air directly into the lid, which is sealed to it)
?
The area of the home made unit looks about equivalent to a stock WS6 hood opening (2 upper holes). But the WS6 also gets air from underneath as well. And if the lower 2 are cut out to be active as well, that ups the opening area, and it's in an ideal location as well. (not least of which because it's a straight shot, no bends required)
How does this compare to
- 1 - a stock WS6 set up
- 2 - a debaffled stock WS6 setup
- 3 - a sealed and fully opened, debaffled WS6 (or SLP HO or Firehawk hood) setup (ie, where all 4 holes, or equivalent area, are used for taking air directly into the lid, which is sealed to it)
?
The area of the home made unit looks about equivalent to a stock WS6 hood opening (2 upper holes). But the WS6 also gets air from underneath as well. And if the lower 2 are cut out to be active as well, that ups the opening area, and it's in an ideal location as well. (not least of which because it's a straight shot, no bends required)
08-05-2008, 06:11 PM
#59
I had the Slp undercar ram air set up and never sealed the front. I thought that was a dumb idea. also ran a ws6 hood and G2 lid, G2 MAF, ported stock TB, 160 stat, HPPG and a random tech catback. Before the slp ram air the car would turn around 13.4s at 104 and with the slp undercar setup and ram air hood it would go 12.8s at 108. Huge gains from ram air!!!!!!!!!!!
The best stock ram air set up is easily the LT1 WS6 style.
The best stock ram air set up is easily the LT1 WS6 style.
08-05-2008, 11:36 PM
#60
Sounds like it doesn't work at all. Which theoretically is doesn't work near as good as the LS1 WS6 style. The opening on the LT1 hood don't have the area that the LS1 hood does and the LT1 scoops are further back in a lower pressure zone.
Jon