Ready to get serious....
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,001
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From: Sugarland Texas
Ready to get serious.... Ok guys, for YEARS I have used meguires, mothers, NXT, the meg. pro series all by hand. I am really good at it, I can have my car looking DAMN good. But EVERY ******* time it is back to swirl city after the next wash, no matter how many coats I do. It is really getting old, does anybody know of a polish and wax that LAST, I use wool mitts and clean towels and it still washes right out. Basically all I do is fill in the inperfections untill the next wash. Last time I did Meg #7 polish and #26 high tech wax, it looked great but the next weekend i washed it again and it was right back to normal. I know I need the PC, and I am working on it, but that damn thing intimidates me, I am semi-worried I wont be able to use it right. I dunno, I am just tired of having to re wax my car every weekend to get the look I want. When you use the PC are you removing the swirls or just filling them?
Its basically a microscopic scratch think of a V in the clear coat the light hits the edge in the V scratch and shows the scratch in the light. To get rid of them you have to wear the sharp edge down (round the edges) or fill in the scratch with fillers. I use Meguiars swirl remover 2.0 (#9 I think) and it does a good job rounding the corners of the scratch down. I use a portacable polisher though because I can't get swirls or scratches out by hand for the life of me. If you need more info let me know.
Get the PC, you won't regret it and your car will thank you.
In addition to that, there are some extra steps you can take in keeping more swirls from developing:
I only use 100% cotton (white) towels when washing/drying my car. They get washed in warm water with liquid detergent only and without softener in the dryer. I also cut the edges off and hemmed them up with a serger because the borders were some kind of polyester (a little excessive, yes). The powdered detergents may not completely dissolve in the washer and can scratch the surface.
Don't use towels that are dirty, old socks, etc. when washing, but I'm sure you know this. If you drop it, stop using it. When drying, if you notice dirt on the towel, stop using it (you could probably wash that spot again too).
It is unreasonable to try to remove swirls from your finish without some kind of buffer; it would just take too long. The PC is a good tool and you basically can't damage the paint unless you use it without a pad or stick sand paper on it or something retarded. Even on the max setting with a lot of pressure, you won't remove that much clear so the likelihood of you burning through the finish is slim to none. A rotary buffer is a different story, though.
When removing scratches you are basically taking a little of the clearcoat off to make the surface flat again. This is where the different cut compounds/pads come into play.
If you are interested I could probably get some video of "proper" usage of the PC so you could see how to do it. There are some references on the Meguiar's site as well.
In addition to that, there are some extra steps you can take in keeping more swirls from developing:
I only use 100% cotton (white) towels when washing/drying my car. They get washed in warm water with liquid detergent only and without softener in the dryer. I also cut the edges off and hemmed them up with a serger because the borders were some kind of polyester (a little excessive, yes). The powdered detergents may not completely dissolve in the washer and can scratch the surface.
Don't use towels that are dirty, old socks, etc. when washing, but I'm sure you know this. If you drop it, stop using it. When drying, if you notice dirt on the towel, stop using it (you could probably wash that spot again too).
It is unreasonable to try to remove swirls from your finish without some kind of buffer; it would just take too long. The PC is a good tool and you basically can't damage the paint unless you use it without a pad or stick sand paper on it or something retarded. Even on the max setting with a lot of pressure, you won't remove that much clear so the likelihood of you burning through the finish is slim to none. A rotary buffer is a different story, though.
When removing scratches you are basically taking a little of the clearcoat off to make the surface flat again. This is where the different cut compounds/pads come into play.
If you are interested I could probably get some video of "proper" usage of the PC so you could see how to do it. There are some references on the Meguiar's site as well.
Last edited by ryansm1; Jun 12, 2006 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Atlanta, GA
I wouldnt mind seeing that video. Got my PC a few weeks ago, only had time to try it on my hood but I got decent results, not GREAT, but pretty good. Im sure theres a technique Im missing or I just need to do it a little longer.
Originally Posted by Z28-CTYHNTR
I wouldnt mind seeing that video. Got my PC a few weeks ago, only had time to try it on my hood but I got decent results, not GREAT, but pretty good. Im sure theres a technique Im missing or I just need to do it a little longer.
Thanks Ryan. I've been meaning to do a video for a while, but I don't have a video camera and finding the time has been difficult.
Sprayed: Sugarland isn't that far away. I could get together with you some time and let your try out my PC and see how you like it.
-Mike
Sprayed: Sugarland isn't that far away. I could get together with you some time and let your try out my PC and see how you like it.
-Mike
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Don't be intimidated by the PC, about the only way to damage the paint with one is to drop it on the car.
I was a complete newb at detailing, (yes I used dish soap and and an old t shirt, not on the T/A tho) now I get alot of Wow that's a beautiful black car, I credit autopia, this forum, Menzerna polishes, and the PC for those comments
IIRC autopia.org has a video/pictures of what the Menzerna polishes should look like at various stages, you might want to head over there and check out their forum (you'll learn more about detailing a car and the products to use than you ever wanted to)
I was a complete newb at detailing, (yes I used dish soap and and an old t shirt, not on the T/A tho) now I get alot of Wow that's a beautiful black car, I credit autopia, this forum, Menzerna polishes, and the PC for those comments
IIRC autopia.org has a video/pictures of what the Menzerna polishes should look like at various stages, you might want to head over there and check out their forum (you'll learn more about detailing a car and the products to use than you ever wanted to)
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TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,374
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From: Amarillo, Texas
The products you have been using are full of fillers, which is the reason the defects come back after washing - the fillers have been removed.
The PC is completely safe for anyone to use. Because of its orbital motion, it cannot generate any appreciable amount of heat (which is what damages paint).
You can pick up the PC 7336 from Lowes for under $100 most of the time. There are several great places to order pads, polishes, towels, etc. I like to use www.pakshak.com - Ranney is a great guy to deal with.
Once you get your paint in great shape, it's *very* important that you use proper supplies and techniques for maintenance:
Basic Weekly Wash Supplies
Wash Mitts - Eurow genuine sheepskin mitt or a 100% cotton wash mitt.
Car Wash Soap - some popular ones are Eagle One Wet wash, 1Z Perls shampoo, Zaino Z7, and Wolfgang auto bathe.
Drying - Waffle Weave microfiber towels, electric leaf blower, and/or 100% white cotton towels, made in USA.
Washing, Drying and Waxing Tips
- Never use circular motions. Always wash, dry, and wax using front to back and top to bottom motions.
- Don't use the same mitt or bucket for wheels that you use on your paint. The brake dust, etc. from your wheels will cause scratches and swirls in your paint.
- Use two buckets for washing paint. One with a soapy mixture, the other with plain water to rinse the mitt between panels.
Caring for Mitts and Towels
- Wash on the Hot/Cold setting
- Use liquid detergent only w/ no bleach and NO fabric softener
- Add distilled white vinegar to the rinse cycle for added softness and soil release
- Rinse twice
- Dry towels on low heat w/ no fabric sheets
These tips will help minimize swirls, scratches, etc.
The PC is completely safe for anyone to use. Because of its orbital motion, it cannot generate any appreciable amount of heat (which is what damages paint).
You can pick up the PC 7336 from Lowes for under $100 most of the time. There are several great places to order pads, polishes, towels, etc. I like to use www.pakshak.com - Ranney is a great guy to deal with.
Once you get your paint in great shape, it's *very* important that you use proper supplies and techniques for maintenance:
Basic Weekly Wash Supplies
Wash Mitts - Eurow genuine sheepskin mitt or a 100% cotton wash mitt.
Car Wash Soap - some popular ones are Eagle One Wet wash, 1Z Perls shampoo, Zaino Z7, and Wolfgang auto bathe.
Drying - Waffle Weave microfiber towels, electric leaf blower, and/or 100% white cotton towels, made in USA.
Washing, Drying and Waxing Tips
- Never use circular motions. Always wash, dry, and wax using front to back and top to bottom motions.
- Don't use the same mitt or bucket for wheels that you use on your paint. The brake dust, etc. from your wheels will cause scratches and swirls in your paint.
- Use two buckets for washing paint. One with a soapy mixture, the other with plain water to rinse the mitt between panels.
Caring for Mitts and Towels
- Wash on the Hot/Cold setting
- Use liquid detergent only w/ no bleach and NO fabric softener
- Add distilled white vinegar to the rinse cycle for added softness and soil release
- Rinse twice
- Dry towels on low heat w/ no fabric sheets
These tips will help minimize swirls, scratches, etc.
good info here .. one more thing ..
you mentioned using Meg's #7 . #7 is a high oil content show glaze, that is not designed to last more than a few days, tops..
don't be afraid of the PC ..
you mentioned using Meg's #7 . #7 is a high oil content show glaze, that is not designed to last more than a few days, tops..
don't be afraid of the PC ..
Im thinkin about gettin that thing too. It also cuts overall time than by doing it by hand. Sometimes when I wash/paint clean/polish my bird, it stays super clean for a day or two.Then bam it looks like crap the next and Im so dissappointed I just want to wash it again but i dont think thats good for it.
That vid will also be a big help
That vid will also be a big help
Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
I know ive seen full kits, with a PC, pads, and polishes. What site carries all that stuff together as a kit?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,001
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From: Sugarland Texas
Ok guys, I ordered the basic PC/backingplate/buffing pad from autopia, then I odered the menzera swirl remover kit from properautocare, it comes with the pads I need as well as thr polishes. Hopefully it works out well for me. Thanks for all your help
I didn't get a chance to make the video today (plans fell through) but I should be able to do them tomorrow or the following; I'll post up when I get the chance.
Sprayed: Once you learn to use the PC, you will wonder why you didn't buy it sooner. Good purchase.
Sprayed: Once you learn to use the PC, you will wonder why you didn't buy it sooner.
Good purchase.
Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
What is the best method of working it into the paint? How long to stay in the same spot, ect.
I've been taught that you should work with an area of about four square feet; make horizontal passes first, overlapping your previous pass about halfway, then vertical, then diagonally across the surface while maintaining the 50% overlap.
For a while you will probably have to experiment a little to see how long you need to work different compounds into the surface; I usually make an 'X' shape on the pad or, when possible, leave a line across the surface I am intending to work. Using too much of one compound will force you to work it longer (and costs you more money than necessary) while using too little doesn't get the job done.
Arm speed is difficult to express online; that's why I was hoping to put together a video that would give you some idea.
I'm sure others will chime in with what they do. There is a great writeup in the Hall of Fame sticky that you should take a look at (if you haven't already).
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Amarillo, Texas
Originally Posted by Sprayed1998
What is the best method of working it into the paint? How long to stay in the same spot, ect.