Used PC to get rid of swirls
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 644
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From: Sugarland , TX
Used PC to get rid of swirls Used my new porter cable and the menzerna polish and pad kit yesterday. Needless to say it didnt cut out all the swirls. The kit came with a orange pad and white pad along with Intersive polish and final polish II. I went over the hood 2 times with each polish and some swirls are still visible. Do I need a more abrasive pad? More abrasive polish? OR both?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Im willing to bet your going to fast, to fast of an arm speed and not using enough pressure.
You have to let the product break down before that specific spot. IE you need to do small sections of the car instead of doing the whole hood, door, quarter panel... or even an area such as HALF the hood is too big to do all at once. An example would be breaking the hood into 4-6 sections and using a new application of polish in each section, working it until its all broken down BUT not all the way to a dry-buff (dry buff meaning working it until its totally dry).
Good luck.. you should be able to get the job done with the PC and the Menzerna polish.
You have to let the product break down before that specific spot. IE you need to do small sections of the car instead of doing the whole hood, door, quarter panel... or even an area such as HALF the hood is too big to do all at once. An example would be breaking the hood into 4-6 sections and using a new application of polish in each section, working it until its all broken down BUT not all the way to a dry-buff (dry buff meaning working it until its totally dry).
Good luck.. you should be able to get the job done with the PC and the Menzerna polish.
x2 ZaneO's and Avengeance's advice. You WILL need multi-passes, and you WILL need to give the product an opportunity to break down. Know though, that the PC is impotent unless you lend it patience.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Sugarland , TX
guess i just need to be more patient. I'll give it another try this weekend and report the results
I am using between 4.5 and 5 on the buffer. I seemed to get the best results with that speed. As for pressure I am pushing down a decent amount definantly not to much but what I seemed to have thought would be enough.
I am using between 4.5 and 5 on the buffer. I seemed to get the best results with that speed. As for pressure I am pushing down a decent amount definantly not to much but what I seemed to have thought would be enough.
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From: Atlanta, GA
I use 5-5.5 with a fair amount of pressue and moving slowly in sections I only needed 2 passes with the Menzerna to get out even my worst swirls. Sonus on the other hand seemed to do barely anything so I dont know if it was me or the polish.
If you want to remove swirls and/or paint imperfections, you need a Makita or Dewalt grinder switched over to make it a power buffer. Heat and abrasive is the only way to remove imperfections.
The best grinders feature variable speed, and dials to "set" your max speed.
You can get ANY swirl or defect out at 1400-1800 rpms.
Then, you need 2-3 good quality foam pads, possibly a wool pad-1 each for every step you will need to do- this of course depends on what condition the paint is in.
The only stuff that "truly" works is professional grade material- Presta and 3M are 2 that I like really well. You have to realize that the professional compounds cut and break down into finer grit as the buffer heat and speed move it into the paint- resulting in a swirl free finish. The rate at which they break down, and the "carrying" solution is what keeps the paint from burning and swirling back up. Look to pay anywhere from 35-50.00 dollars for a bottle of Presta or 3M, and you normally will need one for compounding, one for swirl removing, and one for final glaze.
There are some "1 step" compound/finish materials out there that do work for minor imperfections- I just haven't tried many of them.
The best grinders feature variable speed, and dials to "set" your max speed.
You can get ANY swirl or defect out at 1400-1800 rpms.
Then, you need 2-3 good quality foam pads, possibly a wool pad-1 each for every step you will need to do- this of course depends on what condition the paint is in.
The only stuff that "truly" works is professional grade material- Presta and 3M are 2 that I like really well. You have to realize that the professional compounds cut and break down into finer grit as the buffer heat and speed move it into the paint- resulting in a swirl free finish. The rate at which they break down, and the "carrying" solution is what keeps the paint from burning and swirling back up. Look to pay anywhere from 35-50.00 dollars for a bottle of Presta or 3M, and you normally will need one for compounding, one for swirl removing, and one for final glaze.
There are some "1 step" compound/finish materials out there that do work for minor imperfections- I just haven't tried many of them.
Last edited by TP121; Jul 17, 2006 at 10:43 AM.
The problem with rotary buffers is that they can do more harm than good in the hands of someone who isn't careful/doesn't have experience with them. The Porter Cable polisher is sort of idiot proof, which is a good thing, because I'm sort of an idiot. 
-Mike
-Mike
Originally Posted by chupr0kabra
The problem with rotary buffers is that they can do more harm than good in the hands of someone who isn't careful/doesn't have experience with them. The Porter Cable polisher is sort of idiot proof, which is a good thing, because I'm sort of an idiot.
-Mike
-Mike
Thats why I always recommend someone spend a little more dough and pick up the ones with the speed dials on it.You can always start at the lowest setting and move up as your skills become better.
Originally Posted by 00firebird
you dont need a rotary a PC is enough to get it done.
I havent ventured into the rotary yet but the PC and quality products with diminishing abrasives (Meguiars features dimishing abrasives for less $) should solve most swirl problems, just follow proper procedure - preparation - and have patience. Yeah the rotary is better.. quicker.. but as mentioned the rotary can cost you thousands in a hurry if youre not carefull.
FWIW you can pick up a nice Hitachi rotary with a good motor, dial adjustable speeds, and pretty lightweight from Coastal Tool for $99 + shipping. Ive heard a lot of good about the Hitachi and will be getting my own soon.
FWIW you can pick up a nice Hitachi rotary with a good motor, dial adjustable speeds, and pretty lightweight from Coastal Tool for $99 + shipping. Ive heard a lot of good about the Hitachi and will be getting my own soon.
Originally Posted by Avengeance
FWIW you can pick up a nice Hitachi rotary with a good motor, dial adjustable speeds, and pretty lightweight from Coastal Tool for $99 + shipping. Ive heard a lot of good about the Hitachi and will be getting my own soon.
one of the first rules of fixing paint defects is always use the least abrasive method possible .. in almost all instances for a beginner, a PC will remove less material than a rotary, and is therefore a good first choice.
I will almost always grab the PC to fix a defect, prior to breaking out the rotary ..
I will almost always grab the PC to fix a defect, prior to breaking out the rotary ..
Last edited by Gipraw; Jul 17, 2006 at 04:13 PM.
With my red paint, I started with Mequiars paint cleaner and an orange pad. Didn't work well, so I went to 3M Fine cut and orange pad, still had swirls and scratches. went with Menzerna IPII and orange pad, still had swirls. Went with yellow pad and 3M Fine cut compound, still had scratches but little swirls. Then went with yellow pad and 3M Medium cut compound and that removed most of the deep scratches. These are the scratches you can only see indirect sunlight, so it is hard to do in a garage at nite. My car is relatively new with few miles, so I thought I wouldn't need much grinding but I was surprised. It does take time (at least 30 hrs for mine) and multiple passes for certain areas. But it is well worth it. Good thing is, you cannot do much damage with the PC so stay at it. And afterwards, you will learn to be very very careful when washing your car!!!!! So don't get discouraged, keep at it and you will be glad you did.
Originally Posted by Gipraw
one of the first rules of fixing paint defects is always use the least abrasive method possible .. in almost all instances, and PC will remove less materil than a rotary, and is therefore a good first choice.
I will almost always grab the PC to fix a defect, prior to breaking out the rotary ..
I will almost always grab the PC to fix a defect, prior to breaking out the rotary ..
EDIT: I sounded kind of dick-headed up there. I myself am an avid PC user and even with a rotary, my PC would probably be my first choice. I'm in the same boat as you guys.
Originally Posted by NightWindDriftr
You should know that the "abrasive" qualities of a rotary come from its generation of heat. If you can control that, then you can control how much it cuts into the paint. Come on Gipraw, you always sound like you know what you're talking about. Aside from levels of experience, there's no good reason to choose a PC over a rotary provided that you have the skill to do so.
EDIT: I sounded kind of dick-headed up there. I myself am an avid PC user and even with a rotary, my PC would probably be my first choice. I'm in the same boat as you guys.
EDIT: I sounded kind of dick-headed up there. I myself am an avid PC user and even with a rotary, my PC would probably be my first choice. I'm in the same boat as you guys.