Vigilante converters, low mph, low effeciency?
12-16-2009, 09:50 PM
#42
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I guess it's just a fluke but the guys I know who have gone to the multi disc lock up clutches have picked up et and mph by locking them at the 1000ft mark. We data logged a twin turbo 700rwhp car and he picked up 3mph and 15/100's, the car pulled like it hit another gear when it starting closing the 500rpm difference between driveline rpm and engine rpm when he locked the clutch.
12-16-2009, 10:31 PM
#43
They're design to slip by using varying fluid pressure. Eliminating all but max psi in the PCM goes a long way towards combating that slip. True, common aftermarket TCC clutches aren't made to hold that kind of abuse but they will for a little while at decent power levels. Not everyone has 700whp turbo cars. And even on that you only gained .15? Not saying that isn't good but considering most people buying these converters have less than half that and less than optimal setups. Then 9 out of 10 are probably gonna loose ET and MPH from it.
12-16-2009, 10:44 PM
#44
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They're design to slip by using varying fluid pressure. Eliminating all but max psi in the PCM goes a long way towards combating that slip. True, common aftermarket TCC clutches aren't made to hold that kind of abuse but they will for a little while at decent power levels. Not everyone has 700whp turbo cars. And even on that you only gained .15? Not saying that isn't good but considering most people buying these converters have less than half that and less than optimal setups. Then 9 out of 10 are probably gonna loose ET and MPH from it.
A low horsepower and torque vehicle could have a loss of 20% efficiency of coupling the drivetrain and et/mph higher than a more efficient convertor that only has a loss of 7%
12-16-2009, 10:49 PM
#45
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Now that I understand this thread, the question is similiar to trying to compare horsepower on the dyno with a stalled auto. Pretty much any of the sponsors can spec and build you a great convertor and don't worry about efficiency.
Sorry if I offended anyone, effiecency to me is taking as much of the energy made by the engine and turning it into motion at the axle.
Sorry if I offended anyone, effiecency to me is taking as much of the energy made by the engine and turning it into motion at the axle.
12-17-2009, 08:53 PM
#47
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A little more info than "GF's car" would be helpfull to those that are looking to try it.
I never said it was impossible, just rare. I thought we were talking about the average car. Start throwing high HP forced induction into the mix and yes the results will vary.
12-17-2009, 09:38 PM
#48
'00 Trans am
ls6 intake
SLP LTs
ORY w/ cutout
ls6 cam
3200 VIG (more like a 3500)
3.73s
hand held tune
Didn't show a difference in the 1/8 at all.. This was from the previous owner but I saw proof of it. We now have a TCI 3200 in it and are going to test it to see if it picks anything up.
12-17-2009, 09:55 PM
#50
I would say it is a downgrade..
The previous owner that had the Vig in it ran 11.7@115mph with the mods listed ^^^^ full weight (3600#) stock rims.. I would say that is damn good.. He cut 1.5X short times lifting the left tire about 6 inches. Tq arm was the only suspension mod.
12-18-2009, 07:13 AM
#53
Im my expereience, only power adder cars benefit from locking the converter.
To get the converter to LOCK the restrictor in the end of the trans input shaft need to be removed to provide full fluid pressure to the converter clutch.
Normally aspirated setups rarely benefit from locking the converter at WOT and it is VERY hard on the input shft. If it does the converter is too big for the setup.
To get the converter to LOCK the restrictor in the end of the trans input shaft need to be removed to provide full fluid pressure to the converter clutch.
Normally aspirated setups rarely benefit from locking the converter at WOT and it is VERY hard on the input shft. If it does the converter is too big for the setup.
12-18-2009, 08:10 AM
#54
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"to get the converter to LOCK the restrictor in the end of the trans input shaft need to be removed to provide full fluid pressure to the converter clutch. "
You need to tune out the PWM or mechanically eliminate it. It has more to do with the amount of clutch surface that is why they use multi disc. It's not just a matter of taking a convertor and locking the clutch, these are engineered and designed to be locked.
Let's get back to the basics, what are you trying to achieve with a convertor? A device that allows the car to be at max torque and as the car progresses down the strip progressively eliminates the rpm difference between motor and drivetrain.
It sounds like what people on this thread are are wanting is a convertor that isn't to "inefficient" or one that is to "efficient" . I hear people blaming the convertor, most problems aren't the convertor it's the buyer. An example you buy a 3500 stall for X amount of horsepower and torque, as time goes on you keep changing your motor and drivtrain combination now that convertor is no longer the best convertor for your combination.
A 3500 stall convertor for 320hp and 3.23's isn't going to work as well if you upgrade to 400hp and 3.73's, the convertor isn't junk, it's just the wrong convertor for the best performance.
I have that problem now 3200 stall circle-D, went from a T67 to a T76 turbo increased the boost and now it's about a 3800-4000 stall and I'm seeing a difference of 700rpm between the motor rpm and driveline at the top of 3rd.
You need to tune out the PWM or mechanically eliminate it. It has more to do with the amount of clutch surface that is why they use multi disc. It's not just a matter of taking a convertor and locking the clutch, these are engineered and designed to be locked.
Let's get back to the basics, what are you trying to achieve with a convertor? A device that allows the car to be at max torque and as the car progresses down the strip progressively eliminates the rpm difference between motor and drivetrain.
It sounds like what people on this thread are are wanting is a convertor that isn't to "inefficient" or one that is to "efficient" . I hear people blaming the convertor, most problems aren't the convertor it's the buyer. An example you buy a 3500 stall for X amount of horsepower and torque, as time goes on you keep changing your motor and drivtrain combination now that convertor is no longer the best convertor for your combination.
A 3500 stall convertor for 320hp and 3.23's isn't going to work as well if you upgrade to 400hp and 3.73's, the convertor isn't junk, it's just the wrong convertor for the best performance.
I have that problem now 3200 stall circle-D, went from a T67 to a T76 turbo increased the boost and now it's about a 3800-4000 stall and I'm seeing a difference of 700rpm between the motor rpm and driveline at the top of 3rd.
12-18-2009, 06:24 PM
#55
WELL!!!!!!! So much for seeing if this converter would also help.. GF totaled the car today. Driving down the interstate around 60mph raining really hard, she hydroplaned.. Went off the embankment slammed into a tree spun her around backwards and hit 2-3 other trees.. Fucked the rear end up real nice.
Going to part it and get another one!
Going to part it and get another one!
12-18-2009, 07:28 PM
#57
Luckily, it could have been pretty bad. The front half of the car didn't really even have a scratch.. The rear is mangled pretty badly.
She went to the hospital. Once the adrenaline wore off she started feeling pretty banged up. They gave her some pain medication, but she isn't injured just really sore.
Thanks though!
She went to the hospital. Once the adrenaline wore off she started feeling pretty banged up. They gave her some pain medication, but she isn't injured just really sore.
Thanks though!
12-19-2009, 07:50 PM
#58
643rwhp in a full weight 4th gen (3600#) = between 5 and 6 percent slip at the end of the 1/4 with a Vig. 5-6% is not bad.
If you knew anything, you'd know that TCI lockup converters have a 4 cylinder sized lockup clutch. One lockup at WOT and the tranny is toast.
