99corvette

iTrader: (12)

The guy who built my transmission said that the case trans/hydraulic fluid makes his trannies run about 20 degrees cooler.

355TurboLT1

iTrader: (11)

I believe it. It has been proven many times with different fluids, mostly synthetic.

99corvette

iTrader: (12)

Well we make both where i work, motor oils/tranny fluids/ and tractor trans hydraulic fluids along with other fluids. We put this additive in the hydraulic fluid that is a "slickening" agent. If you ever felt of it, it is ALOT slicker than our transmission fluids.

355TurboLT1

iTrader: (11)

Thats cool man. You should check out bobistheoilguy.com . Most people don't realize that ATF is not only not very slippery compared to PCMO, but also does not have half as much detergents. Like the old "throw some atf in the motor to clean it out". Really doesn't work. It can quiet lifters, but thats more a function of ATF being a 20WT and thinning things out a bit providing some more lube to the lifters. Not that I EVER recommend that stupid practice! lol.

Some people use additives (ie LubeGard) with good results. Although there is no replacement for a proper spec synthetic atf. The issue with most additives is that you are still stuck with an inferior base oil (ie conventional atf is most times group II/+. If draining at proper intervals you will more than likely never see any issues. But with a synthetic you get twice the intervals in most applications with much improved thermal capabilities. Like they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

seems like I have read lots have issues with the 4l60e and syn fluids.

355TurboLT1

iTrader: (11)

Not attacking you, but how is a synthetic ATF going to negatively affect any transmission for that matter as long as the spec is right (ie Dex III or DexVI)???? Answer, it wont. Period. This has come up alot lately and there are some poorly informed folks on here with respect to lubricants and how they work, especially ATF! Frankly, I'm getting tired of hearing people whom know nothing about ATF or oil, blame something like synthetic atf for a failure. GM's newest Dexron Spec(DEXRON VI) happens to be SYNTHETIC. It backspecs all other versions of Dexron. No failure issues, actually it is improving durability and greatly extending time between service.

People need to understand that the most important thing when talking about ATF is that the spec is correct. I have been running top of the line order only synthetic fluids in my cars, trucks and drag cars for going on 16 years. Never one lube related failure! Synthetic ATF is not a magic fluid, it just simply outperforms conventional ATF, period. There is no comparison. There are countless fleet vehicles that have the 4L60e that have logged over 200k on synthetic atf without issue. And the 4L60 is a crappy transmission. I have 210k on a 92 suburban running synthetic atf since 60K. Shifts like new. My opinion is that people just "happen to be" running synthetic atf and beating the **** out of their cars drag racing and something breaks. I really doubt anyone on here has proven a lube related failure alone, as most don't even know what PCMO or group III means! Alot of folks here need to eduacate themselves on lubricants. Just because you can turn a wrench does not qualify you to speak about lubricants. When I hear people in these threads talking about ATF and the first thing they say is "they contain a ultra high amount of detergents blah blah" I just want to scream. End of rant.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

^^^yeah whatever. I personally have never had an issue with syn trans fluid either. I have heard bunches of people saying the 4l60e can act a little quirky with syn fluids and with non-syn it does fine. I have personally run both with no issues to date.

99corvette

iTrader: (12)

I have no personal experience running the syn. And do not see how it would hurt, But i did put the tractor trans hydrolic fluid in mine with this new tranny and it would not shift right and did act "quirky". I had to change it. I think on the turbo 350s and 400s it might be ok because they have a wire mesh filter vs our paper filter.

355TurboLT1

iTrader: (11)

The filter has no influence on how the atf will act in the transmisson. That is affected by the FM's(friction modifiers) and viscosity of the fluid mainly. For example Dexron III( no longer licensed or used by GM) has a viscosity at 100 degrees celcius of 7.5-7.8 for most. Take Gm's newest addition, Dexron VI with a viscosity of around in the high 5's, low 6's and with a different additive package(levels of friction modifiers etc). When placed in a trans that was originally spec'd for Dex III often times the transmission may exhibit different behaviour. Now does this mean its bad, no it all depends. If its in good working order the Dex VI should work better than the that of Dex III in a stock application! Now add some power and everything changes.

Like I have stated before, pick a fluid that meets the spec. I prefer Dex III synthetic atf(redline D4). I like the fact that it is a higher viscosity fluid and just might protect better. Plus it meets the transmissions viscosity requirement.

Quickly. Dexron III works like this. It starts out with a viscosity @ 100 degrees celcius of approx 7.5/ In the fluids service life it will "shear" down to the mid to low 5's. This is allowed with this fluid. Dexron VI is engineered to start out at lets say 6.0 and only shear a couple of points. It is shear stable.In respect to viscosity allowance they both do the job, they just get there two different ways. It can remain in service for a very long time and maintains shift quality longer as well. It is not yet proven in high output applications as it has not been on the streets very long.

Again, a synthetic atf of the correct spec WILL NOT damage your transmission. Can it cause different shifts that you percieve to be not normal, yes! Sometimes you have to experiment with a few fluids to see what works. And remember, if you only do a pan drain with a different fluid, don't epxect to be able to fully evaluate it as you haven't even replaced half of the total capacity. A cooler line flush will replace 99% of old fluid if done properly(outline under transmission flush on Amsoil.com) and will let you evaluate the new fluid as there will be little to no cross contamination.

All I have heard for the most part in this thread is bad information and stories about other peoples cars. If you know someone that can prove a lube(ATF) related failure using a proper spec synthetic, I really would like to see you post it. People point the finger all day long, but seldom do they have proof. Why? Because we all have a habit of being full of **** from time to time.

99corvette

iTrader: (12)

Yeah im not really sure why the tractor/trans fluid didnt work. I figured it was because it was so much thicker than the DEX that it would flow through the filter. But like you said it probably didnt meet the specs that the DEX 3 has.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Yeah I can tell you are a real book smart kind of guy. So congrats on that I never stated failures related to syn fluid, I said issues. And you can quote viscosity grades all day and it doesnt change the truth in real world applications. Truth of the matter is these cars are aging, lots with 100K+, but I bet your book knowledge doesnt account for that.

355TurboLT1

iTrader: (11)

Oh book knowledge!!!! I have been wrenching on all types of vehicle most of my life. No need to prove it to someone whom is speculating about things he knows nothing about. Waste of time. I do happen to have some knowledge on lubricants. Do I know everything, no.

I am stating physical characteristics of a given fluid. Viscosity along with friction modification has alot to do with ATF. Why dont you look into it before making ignorant statements based upon what others are telling you. 100k is nothing in a well maintained automatic that is in good working order. Most dont maintain them properly and wonder why they have issues. Read my post and you can see that I stated not all ATF's with a like spec will act the same in an auto. Formulas vary from product to product.

Didnt anyone ever teach you that you should never assume anything!??? Guess you didnt get the memo. Any time I see someone making a false comment I am going to call them out. If you don't like it I really could care less. Again, educate yourself on the subject. You are obviously not qualified to speak on it if all you have are insinuations and meager attacks calling me "booksmark". Thanks, I'm also mechanically inclined, have a much nicer car than you and have a better job. Happy now, I'm on your level.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

all I know is yank does not recommend synthetic fluid for use with their converters, and I would hope they have a reason

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Ha ha proving you're an idiot. No one ever knows what someone has or doesnt have...I know what info I have put out there for jerks like you to find. Lots of my true information doesnt exist on this interwebz Guess that means you assumed......wait a mintue, I just read....


O no, Mr God of all things mechanical says syn is #1. Maybe we should call Yank and tell them, bc obviously they didnt get some memo.....o that was my memo. Well surely someone issued a memo about the syn fluid as well, hell this may have been the same memo. Maybe thats why I missed it.

355TurboLT1

iTrader: (11)

Apparently you dont get sarcasm. Thats unfortunate. By all means call Yank, the one company who recommends against all synthetic atf. They must be using something special as they are one of the few that even makes a fluid recommendation(with respect to base oil).Rossler says syn is more than ok, says so on their web site. Then you would be using data from a company instead of running your mouth on a subject you know little about. Funny how guys like yourself enter into conversations such as these with no qualifications on a topic and use preschool tactics to try and undermine hard data compiled over millions of miles in countless platforms. Guess all of the tribolgists and engineers dont know wtf they are talking about!

Next time you respond, do me a favor and bring some data to the table. It's obvious that your are uniformed about lubricants by your poor rebutals. I really could care less about your opinion on the subject, as you have shown you know nothing about it. In the end im arguing with a internet Troglodyte. Until you become informed on the topic at hand, you have no leg to stand on. Keep the insults coming. Really shows class.

Thunderstuck507- As I am intrigued to hear why Yank does not recommend synthetic atf, it really doesn't pertain to this discussion. Yes, some guys are bound to run Yank torque converters, but the original discussion had to do with issues pertaining to the 4L60e trannys in perticular, while running synthetic based atf. Again, there is no data to support claims other than shift quality. No brands were given. We will assume, that they were all DEX III, but don't know. There are too many variables here.

Like it or not, you cannot make unfounded comments that are accompanied with ZERO data. Many of you need to better educate yourselves on this subject. It's embarrassing the amount of misinformation being regurgitated on this site with respect to oil. Laughable really, but at the same time unfortunate because this site does contain alot of very good infomation and resources. Enough with the false information. We are better than that.

99corvette

iTrader: (12)

Alright guys i need help picking out a tranny cooler! My car's tranny is running 250 degrees.
I was thinking about this one...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G4969/
But its a little high

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

This is the one Im running, its a bad MF. Typically most will tell you the plate style coolers are more efficient then the tube and fine style.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70274/

LS1GMCTruck

iTrader: (2)

Was just on E-Bay looking at tranny coolers...a lot of nice cooler options at reasonable prices.

99corvette

iTrader: (12)

looks like the one i was thinking about..might actually be the same one

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=2317

Looks to big to mount on the front of the radiator??

209ryder

iTrader: (2)

4k stalled w/ rmvb & T-Brake, th400 in my fbody i run that cooler you posted and have no problems with it and it does see some street driving and some hard launches and racing too...Good luck hope u figure it out