2000WS6Vert

Could the 4L65-E in the C6 be modified to fit into an F-body? It sure would be nice to have better matched gear ratios!

Any thoughts?

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

What's the ratio's of the C6?

The 4L60E ratios work pretty damn well IMO...

BADFNZ

iTrader: (19)

I'm pretty sure it's a direct replacement for the 4L60E. It's basically a 4L60E with pretty much every part upgraded. When my tranny goes boom bitch, I'll be saving up for a 4L65.

Colonel

It's basically a 4L60-E with a 5 (instead of 4) pinion planetary. You can upgrade your 4L60-E to this. It might have a hardened input shaft as well which can also be upgraded.

Same ratios.

I don't know why they went through the trouble of giving it a new designation. It's still a 4L60-E.

XLR8NSS

iTrader: (4)

Doesn't the number represent the torque holding capability of the trans somehow? That's probably why they changed it.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

The 4L65-E does carry a higher torque handling capacity and has some pretty significant upgrades compared to the 4L60-E. HPP ran a detailed article a couple months on it.

To Colonel's point, why not just buy a rebuilt tranny for the same cost? One answer would be it's like rolling dice; you never know how it's going to good it will be. Some feel better buying a factory built part.

DeepBlueZ

i have the 4L65-E in my Z.

it's almost a direct bolt-in. there are a couple things you need to change...

i dont know about the vette, but in the holden cars (aka the GMPP version of the tranny), the tail shaft housing has no provision for bolting on a torque arm. also the small shaft that the shift lever linkage connects to has to be switched as its too long and will hit the tranny tunnel on installation.

the truck version of the 4L565E lacks the corvette servo as well as having a different tailhousing meant to mate to a 4WD transfer case.

the part number for the car 4L65E your looking for is #24221888
you also need the aforementioned f-body tailhousing and manual shaft (shift lever)...i dont know the part numbers for these but you can always swap them off your old tranny...its not too hard to do.

if you have any questions about a potential swap to the 65 lemme know. Shoot me a PM or post it here.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Deepblue - Thanks for the info.

Colonel

"has some pretty significant upgrades compared to the 4L60-E."

I read about it too but I don't recall all that was changed other than noting that everything listed (and some other extras) is available from TCI. Do you have handy what exactly was upgraded on the 65 other than the 5 gear planetary? Thanks.

DeepBlueZ

-the input shaft and output shaft are both manufactured differently for increased strength.
-the two planetary gears are, as stated, 5 pinion.
-the sun gear is hardened.
-the 3-4 clutch pack contains 7 clutches instead of 6 and they are hi-energy clutches which are a step above stock.
-the low/reverse roller clutch is built from heavier duty parts.
-the Holden/GTO/GM perf. parts version (as opposed to the truck version) has performance-tuned valvebody calibration.
-the GMPP version also has the corvette servo.
-the GMPP version has a 2 quart deeper tranny pan (i ditched it anyway and put in a B+M 3 quart, finned deep pan just for max cooling.)

-my favorite feature of the 65 is the fact that its absolutely BRAND NEW....i know that other "built" trannies have more upgrades then the 65 but the 65 has no miles on it, is not a rebuild, and still comes with the same 12,000 mile warranty. Also my car doesn't make crazy power (its hard to think of a 400+ flywheel HP car being relatively unpowerful lol, gotta love the LS1) so the 65 was a nice choice for me... alson its a bit pricey but i got it for cost so it worked out to be about the same as most of the rebuilt performance trannies.


BLKTA- any time, again if ya got any questions, feel free to ask me.

Colonel

Thanks, great info. TTT!

DeepBlueZ

any time....

patriot68

the gear ratios are the same. the 65e just has 5 pinion planets, hardened input and output shaft and a heavy duty shell..all the parts interchange with the 60e

whitt1

They've been using 4L65Es in 6.0 trucks since the 02 model year it's really nothing new.A heavy truck with 400rwhp will destroy one pretty quick.

DeepBlueZ

true but remember, the truck version is different from the car version. the car version wont take 400 RWHP for 50K miles either but it will take a little more punishment/power than the truck version.

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

thats the part i was looking for someone to bring up, the reaction sun shell is the first part to go.

DeepBlueZ

ehh usually not always.....my friend went through 8 trannies and never broke a sunshell...

Colonel

I've busted a shell once but I've destroyed many a set of 3-4 clutches and one drum.

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

ive replaced probable a dozen of these in customer s/t trucks alone, ive had one blow apart while another guy was power braking the truck on the lift. just a weak point in the 4l60e

Guardsman

One thing to note, though, the torque and hp ratings on the 4L65E are slightly higher than the 4L60E, however, they also dropped the shift points to 5600rpm.

Also, there is (was) an upgraded 4L60E that has the hardened parts, it's listed as a 4L60E by GM, but it's RPO code M32 instead of M30.

Also, the 4L60E M32 and 4L65E are only on Silverado 2500 HD 4x4s with the 6.0l gas motor, that's it (as far as trucks go, I don't knwo for sure what other applications it's used in).

If you're doing a rebuild, you can get all of the 4L65E components, and install them in your 4L60E. Another note, though, to, I wouldn't totally trust the GM High Performance magazine (I can't remember the name of the magazine right off the top of my head) as to accuracy. They had a picture of the sun gear installed in the reaction planet (it actually goes in the low/reverse planet), and there is no change to the low/reverse roller clutch.

When I rebuilt my tranny this time, I chased down everything I could for new parts. I didn't get the new input drum and shaft (I've got a V6, so I use a different drum and shaft assembly) or the output shaft.

What I ended up getting ahold of was the 5-pinion low/reverse and reaction planets, sun gear, reaction shaft, and input sprag assembly.

The reaction shaft, sun gear, and sun shell that are in the 4L65E are also in the 2001+ 4L60Es, so all 01+ F-Bodies have those (so you don't waste your money if you don't need to). Also, they come as a kit from GM, however, the P/N for the kit was also used for a different kit before, and both kits are still carried by GM, so check to make sure that you get the right kit (the old kit has nothing to do with the transmission, it just used the same p/n).

I ended up using the new GM reaction shaft and sun gear, with an aftermarket sun shell that is beefed up even more than the latest GM sun shell. It's called "The Beast" (there's also a tranny shop on the internet that has a sun shell they call "The Beast", but it's not the same as the one I used).

One other too, there are two input sprag assemblies, a high speed one and a low speed one. I don't know what the differences are, though, but they are different p/ns, so double check those before you order one.

That last thing that I can think of right now is that there is also a difference in the low/reverse planetary set. The 4-pinion set that comes in the 4L60Es has an oil slinger on the back of it, and oil holes through the centers of the plantetary gears. The 5-pinion planetary doesn't have either. The Camaro parts manual lists a 4-pinion planetary with the oil slinger, and one without, and says that the one with the slinger is for high output applications. What I haven't been able to confirm is whether the 5-pinion planetary gears were changed so that they don't require the oil holes any more. I haven't seen the "low output" 4-pinion planetary, so I don't know if it has oil holes or not.

Basically, keep in mind that the oil slinger isn't there on the 5-pinion planetary, and GM lowered the shift points on the M32/4L65E to 5600 rpm, and I don't know if that had anything to do with the lack of an oil slinger on the planetary, or vice versa.

I've got to go through all of my paperwork, and I'm going to make up a list of all the parts that I put in my tranny, and the part numbers for them.

Hope this all helps.