Trap Speed after torque converter change?
01-21-2011, 10:10 PM
#83
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I wouldnt have run a 4000+ converter unless im turning 7000 rpm. If your reving to 6500, its probably not the most efficient converter for ur setup on the top end. The converter will tighten up as u rev it. If you ask me, a 3600 may be slightly more optimal. But your ets will always be good. Im also the guy that pulls the stick cars on the top end with my auto lol
I never logged the TCC slip of my stock converter, does anyone have these numbers for comparison? 400 rpm of slip is not a ton IMO.
01-22-2011, 09:17 AM
#84
I am on my phone so not going back through all of it.. Read through it and you will catch them yourself.
Simply put, don't build an A4 for roll racing, there is zero reason for it. Two equally modded cars, the M6 always wins from a roll. No matter how efficient a converter is, A4s have more drivetrain loss which means less power.
You want to roll race, buy a manual.
Can you be happy with both aspects? Sure... But don't sit here and say, "I pull manuals up top all day long" because I do too... Why? Because the majority of the time, they have less mods than I do. Equal mods, they pull me. You can't get away from that.
3200 is good for 1.7 short times... That is leaving a LOT on the table. Sure you can argue going from a 3200 to a 4000 is going to cause you to trap 91 instead of 92 mph.. But going from a 3200 to a 4000 is also going to cause you to run 7.4 instead of 7.7s.
You have to give to gain. Just like with a cam, you can't have a top end screamer like an Ms4 with gobs of torque low in the RPM range.
You can't have the best of both worlds, it just doesn't happen like that, period.
Simply put, don't build an A4 for roll racing, there is zero reason for it. Two equally modded cars, the M6 always wins from a roll. No matter how efficient a converter is, A4s have more drivetrain loss which means less power.
You want to roll race, buy a manual.
Can you be happy with both aspects? Sure... But don't sit here and say, "I pull manuals up top all day long" because I do too... Why? Because the majority of the time, they have less mods than I do. Equal mods, they pull me. You can't get away from that.
3200 is good for 1.7 short times... That is leaving a LOT on the table. Sure you can argue going from a 3200 to a 4000 is going to cause you to trap 91 instead of 92 mph.. But going from a 3200 to a 4000 is also going to cause you to run 7.4 instead of 7.7s.
You have to give to gain. Just like with a cam, you can't have a top end screamer like an Ms4 with gobs of torque low in the RPM range.
You can't have the best of both worlds, it just doesn't happen like that, period.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsTi1Qb-kP0
I also wish i had the video of me racing my buddies cammed 01 camaro with this same setup. His was a stick car of equal mods.. I probably had 100lbs on him.. We did a little 60 roll and ran it out to 150 again. He jumped on me and i sat on his bumper all the way till around 125mph then i pulled passed him and was ahead by around a car length..
Last edited by evangto87; 01-22-2011 at 09:26 AM.
01-22-2011, 09:19 AM
#85
01-22-2011, 09:35 AM
#87
the 4c is a 3600-3800 converter. I think it matches up with my cam quite nicely. If i install 3.73 gears its gonna tighten it up some as well.
I never logged the TCC slip of my stock converter, does anyone have these numbers for comparison? 400 rpm of slip is not a ton IMO.
I never logged the TCC slip of my stock converter, does anyone have these numbers for comparison? 400 rpm of slip is not a ton IMO.
My converter is a little to tight for my setup, but after 6000 rpm, my converter was slipping no more then 50 rpm. Now THAT is not a lot of slip. However my setup will loosen up a bit when i change it out for a 4c converter. And Circle ds website advertises it as a 3600-3800 but from what they told me on the phone, the 4c is more of a 4000. Not sure why there is conflicting info on this. However, if u did need to get more top end with ur setup, stick the 3.73s in it and lock the converter at the top of third gear.. will make it a strong top end runner, as well as the gear helping u out at the track.
In my setup i plan on running the 4c converter paired with 3.91s and locking up the converter at around 6400-6500 and pulling it to around 7200.
01-22-2011, 12:52 PM
#88
I just don't get why you pulling a supra that you were faster than on the top end relevant to anything?? Every car is different. Also, unless you had the same exact mods, down to the same cam heads intake tune, etc it means nothing what happened in that race either.
All things equal, m6 will pull a4 up top..
I digress.. I understand what you are saying, just putting too much emphasis on some things for the wrong reasons. I don't agree with it. Obviously you didn't grasp completely what I have been sayong either. Car runs strong though and sounds good!!
01-22-2011, 03:18 PM
#89
I just don't get why you pulling a supra that you were faster than on the top end relevant to anything?? Every car is different. Also, unless you had the same exact mods, down to the same cam heads intake tune, etc it means nothing what happened in that race either.
All things equal, m6 will pull a4 up top..
I digress.. I understand what you are saying, just putting too much emphasis on some things for the wrong reasons. I don't agree with it. Obviously you didn't grasp completely what I have been sayong either. Car runs strong though and sounds good!!
01-22-2011, 07:50 PM
#91
01-22-2011, 08:13 PM
#92
I lost sleep over it! HAHA 
I decided to stay all motor with a little nitrous for back up.. I already have a pretty decent kit. For the money it would be ridiculous for me to switch to FI. Plus I love NA power! I was REALLY close to cracking 6s with my full weight baby 226 cam setup I have now. Probably would have been 7.0s next track visit in this awesome air... I still was going to go back to Xpipe dumped and Chrs1313, also needed a tune for the new intake/etc, that should have got me my 6.X pass.
Ordering my L92 next week.. Pat G custom grind/ported L92 heads/etc. Should come out pretty solid I'm hoping!
I saw the record holder tid bit in your sig, details?
I decided to stay all motor with a little nitrous for back up.. I already have a pretty decent kit. For the money it would be ridiculous for me to switch to FI. Plus I love NA power! I was REALLY close to cracking 6s with my full weight baby 226 cam setup I have now. Probably would have been 7.0s next track visit in this awesome air... I still was going to go back to Xpipe dumped and Chrs1313, also needed a tune for the new intake/etc, that should have got me my 6.X pass.
Ordering my L92 next week.. Pat G custom grind/ported L92 heads/etc. Should come out pretty solid I'm hoping!
I saw the record holder tid bit in your sig, details?
01-23-2011, 01:45 AM
#93
I lost sleep over it! HAHA
I decided to stay all motor with a little nitrous for back up.. I already have a pretty decent kit. For the money it would be ridiculous for me to switch to FI. Plus I love NA power! I was REALLY close to cracking 6s with my full weight baby 226 cam setup I have now. Probably would have been 7.0s next track visit in this awesome air... I still was going to go back to Xpipe dumped and Chrs1313, also needed a tune for the new intake/etc, that should have got me my 6.X pass.
Ordering my L92 next week.. Pat G custom grind/ported L92 heads/etc. Should come out pretty solid I'm hoping!
I saw the record holder tid bit in your sig, details?
I decided to stay all motor with a little nitrous for back up.. I already have a pretty decent kit. For the money it would be ridiculous for me to switch to FI. Plus I love NA power! I was REALLY close to cracking 6s with my full weight baby 226 cam setup I have now. Probably would have been 7.0s next track visit in this awesome air... I still was going to go back to Xpipe dumped and Chrs1313, also needed a tune for the new intake/etc, that should have got me my 6.X pass.
Ordering my L92 next week.. Pat G custom grind/ported L92 heads/etc. Should come out pretty solid I'm hoping!
I saw the record holder tid bit in your sig, details?
I actually posted a thread on the GTO forum about chasing the record but i got flamed for it saying it wont happen and im just a new guy chasing dreams.. So i just deleted the thread. But it is a forum after all and u cant expect everyone to like what u say.. So im just gonna get it done and make them eat there words when i actually post up the video. The goal for april test and tunes is to crack 10s at around 124-125. If i can hit that mark, im 110% positive the 10.50 at 130+ will be done... And yes my GTO is that light.
01-23-2011, 02:19 AM
#94
Yea, I have to drive around 2 hours there and back to get to either of the 1/4 tracks around me. Not fun.
At that weight I see no reason why you couldn't get that record. A 1.58 is simple to cut, you said you were going to have a 4000 converter?
I was at a lowly 415 rwhp or so with race weight of 3450 and was cutting 1.50-.52s in 2200 DA.
Fwiw, you got me behind you! Haha
If you canremember, I would be interested in a pm on updates and stuff along the way.
At that weight I see no reason why you couldn't get that record. A 1.58 is simple to cut, you said you were going to have a 4000 converter?
I was at a lowly 415 rwhp or so with race weight of 3450 and was cutting 1.50-.52s in 2200 DA.
Fwiw, you got me behind you! Haha
If you canremember, I would be interested in a pm on updates and stuff along the way.
01-23-2011, 01:28 PM
#95
Yea, I have to drive around 2 hours there and back to get to either of the 1/4 tracks around me. Not fun.
At that weight I see no reason why you couldn't get that record. A 1.58 is simple to cut, you said you were going to have a 4000 converter?
I was at a lowly 415 rwhp or so with race weight of 3450 and was cutting 1.50-.52s in 2200 DA.
Fwiw, you got me behind you! Haha
If you canremember, I would be interested in a pm on updates and stuff along the way.
At that weight I see no reason why you couldn't get that record. A 1.58 is simple to cut, you said you were going to have a 4000 converter?
I was at a lowly 415 rwhp or so with race weight of 3450 and was cutting 1.50-.52s in 2200 DA.
Fwiw, you got me behind you! Haha
If you canremember, I would be interested in a pm on updates and stuff along the way.
Heres another race i had from 2 years ago.. And yea i wasnt expecting the results to be so in my favor either... read the notes on whats done to each car. And the bad part was, with the 26 inch slick on my car, my top end was killed from tire growth and stock gearing. Wouldnt really get back into its powerband until around 135mph.. So i was in a dead spot from 100 to 135 yet he still wasnt catching me. Though the races didnt run out passed 120 either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08xG5erUnrs
Last edited by evangto87; 01-23-2011 at 03:49 PM.
