Why do most guys here swap in 4L80E's?
03-08-2011, 05:51 PM
#23
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I'm swapping my 60e for a 80e from Jake shoe i ordered my drive shaft 1/16th shorter then a 60e drive shaft so basically the same length. i like that ill have overdrive a trans brake and not worried about it breaking anytime soon even if i get 2-3 years out of it ill be happy if not more and for the swap its not that bad just talk to Jake he can get ya what ya need and slow has tons of info also good luck with whatever way you choose...
03-08-2011, 07:13 PM
#24
03-08-2011, 07:17 PM
#25
Also if you are going to have a local shop do the tranny ask them a few questions..like
"How do you fix the high rpm pressure bleed & 3-4 failure in the 60e?"
"What acc. springs they plan on using?"
"And if they like stall converters?"
IMO a good 245mm stall converter is one of the best things for the 60e, it removes over 25lbs of the hammer that hits the internals during a shift.
"How do you fix the high rpm pressure bleed & 3-4 failure in the 60e?"
"What acc. springs they plan on using?"
"And if they like stall converters?"
IMO a good 245mm stall converter is one of the best things for the 60e, it removes over 25lbs of the hammer that hits the internals during a shift.
03-08-2011, 07:23 PM
#26
The 60 rated to 360lbs of torque stock. A standard LS1 does that all day long. A simple gear upgrade or converter will put it outside its factory specs as far as what its putting down RWP. Horsepower really isnt a factor, its the torque that kills the 60. The 80 is about 50lbs heavier and has a taller 1st gear and also has better servos. I'd take a stock 80 over a built 60 any day of the week..
And same thing goes for the converter, it is normally lighter if you bought the right one, cushins shifts, and only creates heat...a good trans cooler fixes this.
I broke a stock output shaft at 305rwhp with a stock converter and a local shops rebuilt that made it shift to hard. My next build was with slightly softer shifts using acc. springs, and a 3600 stall converter, at 525rwhp the other stock output is doing just fine, because of the stall helping it cushin the hard shift..
And I would also have to say TQ is not the main killer, it has to be HP and RPM, the faster you spin the motor, 6,500-7,000 the harder it will be for the band to stop the reverse input drum, or the 3-4 pack to lock up. To much rpms, can cause 3-4 failure if not built right. High rpm can also cause very hard 1-2 shifts if the converter and internal parts are not matched.
Someone who has a 500rwhp drag car will need a slightly different build vs someone who is wanting to tow that 500rwhp car to the track.
Last edited by silverz28camaro; 03-08-2011 at 07:34 PM.
03-08-2011, 07:34 PM
#27
You have never been so wrong in your life. Gears will help a 60e, think about it, gives it extra leverage to keep the clutches from slipping. Ever have a clutch go bad in a manual trans? slips more in 4th vs 2nd right? same thing with gears in the 60e. 3.73s will take load off the clutches or band vs. 3.23's or higher. Kinda like taking weight out, you go faster, and take to load off a car/drivetrain.
And same thing goes for the converter, it is normally lighter if you bought the right one, cushins shifts, and only creates heat...a good trans cooler fixes this.
I broke a stock output shaft at 305rwhp with a stock converter and a local shops rebuilt that made it shift to hard. My next build was with slightly softer shifts using acc. springs, and a 3600 stall converter, at 525rwhp the other stock output is doing just fine, because of the stall helping it cushin the hard shift..
And same thing goes for the converter, it is normally lighter if you bought the right one, cushins shifts, and only creates heat...a good trans cooler fixes this.
I broke a stock output shaft at 305rwhp with a stock converter and a local shops rebuilt that made it shift to hard. My next build was with slightly softer shifts using acc. springs, and a 3600 stall converter, at 525rwhp the other stock output is doing just fine, because of the stall helping it cushin the hard shift..
Easy Killer.... If all these great things were true with respect to a trannys longevity, why didnt they come like this from factory? simple, more rpms, more heat and more wear.... I agree with your gear statement somewhat, but surely you know that changing gears and converters has to do with torque, twisting power... more of that = more wear = a crying 60e (most of the time) This is my opinion and I have yet to see anything to the contrary (except on paper)... Sometimes theoretical application and practical application take turns kicking each other in the nutz...
03-08-2011, 07:41 PM
#28
Easy Killer.... If all these great things were true with respect to a trannys longevity, why didnt they come like this from factory? simple, more rpms, more heat and more wear.... I agree with your gear statement somewhat, but surely you know that changing gears and converters has to do with torque, twisting power... more of that = more wear = a crying 60e (most of the time) This is my opinion and I have yet to see anything to the contrary (except on paper)... Sometimes theoretical application and practical application take turns kicking each other in the nutz...
Dodge used to install 11in converters in the 727 in the early 70's...gas mileage was ****, but the cars ran well and took off strong, then the EPA cracked down on everyone, If you look up a converter from a factory 440 sixpack car you can have the option to buy a replica 11in converter at the parts store...lol, not that its a performance converter, but it was slightly lighter and higher stall vs stock 12in.
I'm just trying to help bud and give you what I have learned the hard way
03-08-2011, 07:45 PM
#29
And the fact that you think a converter adds tq is funny, it actually just makes tq come in sooner.
a factory converter will still transmit 340ft.lbs through the transmission, install a ss3600 from yank and what you have done in introduced tq and hp sooner and longer, with the converter being lighter most of the time it frees up power.
I have seem more broken parts from a stock converter vs a high quality 245mmstall converter.
a factory converter will still transmit 340ft.lbs through the transmission, install a ss3600 from yank and what you have done in introduced tq and hp sooner and longer, with the converter being lighter most of the time it frees up power.
I have seem more broken parts from a stock converter vs a high quality 245mmstall converter.
03-08-2011, 08:23 PM
#32
I installed a z-pack in the 3-4 did the boost valve, high rpm pump spring, carbon 2-4 band, drilled 2nd gear feed hole to .093, third to .120 with the sonnax servo release valve, slightly stiffer acc. springs. shifts fast and firm, but not hard at all, in a 4,500lb 4x4 truck not running high 13's, I'm looking to push the limits with this tranny
03-08-2011, 08:50 PM
#33
And the fact that you think a converter adds tq is funny, it actually just makes tq come in sooner.
a factory converter will still transmit 340ft.lbs through the transmission, install a ss3600 from yank and what you have done in introduced tq and hp sooner and longer, with the converter being lighter most of the time it frees up power.
I have seem more broken parts from a stock converter vs a high quality 245mmstall converter.
a factory converter will still transmit 340ft.lbs through the transmission, install a ss3600 from yank and what you have done in introduced tq and hp sooner and longer, with the converter being lighter most of the time it frees up power.
I have seem more broken parts from a stock converter vs a high quality 245mmstall converter.
Ever heard or torque multiplication? Also, you see more broken parts from stock converters, because there are many times more vehicles with stock converters than aftermarket ones.
03-08-2011, 09:35 PM
#34
Pretend you are the transmission and the converter is a spinning wheel, now the factory converter is 55lbs, spin it up to 6,000, shift and slow it down to 4,000...fell good?
Now install a 3600 converter that weighs 32 lbs, spin it to 6,000, shift...it only falls to 4800 , because it is still slipping and cushing the shift, what do you think is easier to slow down 50lbs? or 32lbs?
Would you rather get hit by a 50lbs ball? or a 32 lbs ball? what is gonna hurt more?
But I might be wrong, slow67, maybe the stock transmission likes being hit with a 50lb sledge hammer.
And its not just stock vehicles, my 4l60e broke more parts with a stock converter vs. a 3600...
03-08-2011, 10:23 PM
#35
Isnt a smooth shift one that slips a bit more? More slip =more (faster) wear while increasing RPMs. Aren't RPMs like heartbeats p/minute... you only have so many left. And you cant compare the amount of stock coverters to the amount of aftermarket when talking about failure.. Those figures are based on percentages, and I guarantee you, the failure rate is waaaaaay higher on a 4k yank than on ANY factory style.. look how many they make vs how many fail... and ive NEVER seen or heard of aftermarket converter go for 150k.
03-08-2011, 10:38 PM
#36
Isnt a smooth shift one that slips a bit more? More slip =more (faster) wear while increasing RPMs. Aren't RPMs like heartbeats p/minute... you only have so many left. And you cant compare the amount of stock coverters to the amount of aftermarket when talking about failure.. Those figures are based on percentages, and I guarantee you, the failure rate is waaaaaay higher on a 4k yank than on ANY factory style.. look how many they make vs how many fail... and ive NEVER seen or heard of aftermarket converter go for 150k.
03-08-2011, 10:39 PM
#37
Isnt a smooth shift one that slips a bit more? More slip =more (faster) wear while increasing RPMs. Aren't RPMs like heartbeats p/minute... you only have so many left. And you cant compare the amount of stock coverters to the amount of aftermarket when talking about failure.. Those figures are based on percentages, and I guarantee you, the failure rate is waaaaaay higher on a 4k yank than on ANY factory style.. look how many they make vs how many fail... and ive NEVER seen or heard of aftermarket converter go for 150k.
03-08-2011, 10:42 PM
#38
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My opinion is 60s get a bad rap from bad builders. It takes years of knowledge to learn what it takes to make the trans survive. I recently had a core 60 built by a semi-local builder with a great rep from the local drag racing community. I didn't know him at all. But if racers tell you he can build a trans that will hold up, that means something to me. He knew I was gonna beat the car like it owed me money, run a huge converter, and I have Mickeys on the rear. He knew what he was up against before he put his reputation on the line. His cost was about half of what a level 1 or 2 would have been from a sponsor here. I drilled him about the parts list. He didnt put 50% of the cost of the trans in parts...more like a fairly budget minded experienced selection of parts that fixed the weakest links in the transmissions. I let him choose what he wanted to install and didnt give him any of my advice. No telling how this is gonna turn out but Im hoping for the best.
