01wss6

iTrader: (4)

Right it won't lock up unless you tap the brake and then press the gas. I think it may be the tuning because it doesn't feel like its slipping.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

With HPTuners, you'd look at "TCC Mode" for intent
and "TCC Slip RPM" for outcome. A "--3--" says the
TCC is being held off for misfires. The PID only can
display in the table view, you can't chart text (?).

You could have something tangled up in the TCC
lock/unlock MPH vs TPS tables, I suppose. Charting
the TCC lock/unlock MPH for gears, and the upshift/
downshift MPH for gears, might show you regions
where you can't lock in a particular gear.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

I have 3.42 gears. Most often, I have to lift to get it to lock, but I have the TPS set low.
I think I'll add 3rd gear lock back in because the SS3600 is pretty slipery. And my gas mileage is sucking!

Here is the B&M cooler I have.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BMM-70274/
Plumbed with -6 SS braided hose.

The Vette measures trans temp. Does the Camaro?

i only sent Frank an email. I suppose I should call him.
I really wish they would give a detailed sheet on required trans programming. It would not be hard for them to do.

Ron

joecar

Yes Camaro/Firebird reports trans fluid temp ("TFT" on my Nemisys/Genisys, EFIlive).

runtwrestlin

iTrader: (3)

Jimmy...I swear...whenever I read one of your posts it's like an encyclopedia in concise form. Thank you very much.

I haven't had any more problems with the transmission, but that is some awesome info that I had no idea about.


You are absolutely right, there are several transmission PIDs to choose from. Which ones to choose was part of my initial question. Thx.






Yea. You can get the direct temperature or temp sensor voltage from HPTuners.

I would def call. If he doesn't call back in a few hours, I'd call back again.
On their website it suggested using a stock tranny tune to start with, and then adjusting the shift timing from there. The most important thing I got from their overview was to leave the pressure tables alone.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

I'll give him a call.

A bit off topic, but I took the car to the drags to log some full throttle airflow data and the trans works perfect. A bit of a delay 2-3 but I read that is normal. Anyway, nice firm shifts (pressure tables are stock, all torque management removed) and fast too. The car ran 121 mph....not bad for a "data" run.

Ron

runtwrestlin

iTrader: (3)

Freakin A man... Car started unlocking again today.

I scanned TCC Mode and all it did was go from "Locked" to "Off." The grounds are tight and I haven't noticed any weird stuff that would hint a ground is loose, just the stupid unlocking on the freeway.

Jimmy: It only unlocks when I'm cruising on the high way (60+mph). If there were something tangled up in the gearing and what-not, wouldn't it unlock consistently at that given TPS & MPH? The issue seems so sporadic... 15min on highway today and it unlocked several times. Then on my 15min drive back it didn't unlock once...

Ron: did you hear back from them?

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

No, Frank never returned my email. And I didn't call, no reason at present.

In all honesty, I have't had mine on the freeway locked for more than 5 minutes at a time.
I should go try that next weekend.

I have been fiddling with lock mph, in 3rd and 4th, so I never remember exactly where I last set it.

Are you at steady throttle when it unlocks? Or off the gas a bit?

I have a Yank SS3600 and it's very obvious when it is not locked,

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

Was wondering, is your cruise table set the same as the normal table?
How aboout the hot table?

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

Based on the description, I'd look for signs of TCC slip
at cruise (esp. up light grades, cloverleafs etc.) and
immature slip codes. When I had converter clutch problems
way back when, I'd get the converter quitting locking up
until next key-on due to excessive clutch slip (due in turn
to the PCM starving line pressure at low cruise). I had to
jack the force motor table to keep it working until I got
the "new" converter (5-7 years or so back?).

Blkdvll

Finally got my problem figured out. I was able to hook up a scan tool today and found out it wasn't my converter unlocking, but slipping.

Lee12609

iTrader: (3)

jimmy this is exactly what my 98z does, its mostly stock with a revmax 3200 (paid for the upgraded lockup clutch), i have the biggest cooler i can fit. it starts after driving awhile and only at higher speeds. if i just ease into the throttle at say 70mph it'll slip a few hundred RPM, if i ease harder it acts almost like its trying to unlock but cant (feels like a misfire almost but most likely just slipping/grabbing/slipping/grabbing really rapidly, only thing i can compare it to is having a dead cylinder and trying to accelerate at WOT). i have no other complaints until i've been driving awhile and this starts, WOT is fine, no misfires etc. my gas mileage has also went from 21+ to around 17mpg.

i dont have misfire detection tuned out but my car has been tuned a few years ago. the converter has a few thousand miles on it and just started this so i am less likely to think its in the tune and more inclined to say its the converter. what are your thoughts?

what is causing it to slip?

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

TCC slip learning must be killed, by having the TCC duty pinned
to max.

But that division still depends from the main line pressure, which
at light cruise is commanded 0% in stockish tunes. So the TCC
could have 99% of jack, woo-hoo. Still not enough for a small
diameter clutch.

The "upgraded" clutch could mean simple durability, or it could
include a larger diameter apply piston that actually gives more
torque-holding ability. That varies by vendor & model. If you
have to make it up with line pressure, that's not wrong really,
you've got to deal with the hardware realities.

Some OSes, HPTuners gives "general pressure" coverage which
can let you massage the TCC-locked line adder without messing
the force motor table around. This will make it possible to lower
(leave stock) the pump load at idle & unlocked, for economy
and still have TCC hold when you want.

If you're seeing TCC slip when engaged, you either want to
kill it by more pressure, or kill it by giving up (unlock until
higher RPM or lower pedal). Some clutch systems are made
to slip all the time (like OEM) and some are not, and will give
you a trans full of wandering friction material over time.
Again your vendor might indicate whether they can take
a continuous clutch slip (for how many miles?), or not.
A lot of them seem to be all about performance and if it
lasts the season, manic modders are happy (but daily
drivers whose itch got the better of them, not so much
when next season comes before next paycheck).

Lee12609

iTrader: (3)

so basically i should have someone try to tune it out before pulling the trans and sending the converter back or throwing it away?

i know how the PWM works but i'm not sure if the the slip was tuned out (on/off instead of slip), i will PM the person that tuned it and find out.

it gets so bad that even cruising at 70-75 is almost impossible without me forcing it to unlock with throttle and then with the stall i'm half throttle or more just to keep speed.

my fluid wasnt changed when the converter was put in, its still pink but has a slight burnt smell, previous owner did NO kind of maintenance so i'm sure the fluid has seen better days, i'm just not sure if fluid condition has anything to do with the apply pressure to the TCC (if the fluid has any bearing over the TCC slipping or not).

appreciate the help by the way.

01wss6

iTrader: (4)

If the converter slips from the tune will it hurt the transmission if you have to wait a while before the tune can be adjusted. Like I said earlier mine only does it when I let out of the throttle to closed or almost completely closed and then try to accelerate again. If I press the brake and then accelerate the converter will lock like its supposed to.

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

How does all this relate to transmissions that have the PWM feature removed internally?
That is the case with my PB level 2, but I don't know what they do inside.

Ron

Lee12609

iTrader: (3)

The older style tcc solenoid is just on off so you have full pressure or none to the tcc, that is the only difference that I know of. Once the pwm tables are tuned I'd guess the difference would be minimal but I'd let the transmission guys chime in.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

There's a TCC solenoid valve for apply, but there is also
a sub-regulator PWM that controls pressure. This is not
the PCS (force motor) main regulator, the TCC duty is
a further knock-down from there. Whether a vacuum
modulated vehicle also removes the TCC regulator (100%
duty effectively) would come down to cases I suppose.

Vacuum modulation is simple and free of the PCM & tune
screwup depoendencies, but it produces one assumed-right
line pressure profile vs MAP (vacuum). You hope it comes
up faster than motor torque does, maintaining a holding-
friction surplus. But I can see where this could end up on
the wrong side of it, or need tweaking to keep up with an
extra stout motor. You don't have the arbitrary freedom of
the PCM-controlled line pressure (though that does include
freedom to fail).

RonSSNova

iTrader: (3)

Great explanation, I think.
Can you put it in english?

I logged mine today, 0 rpm slip with TPS applied and a load on the engine. Coasting down a long slight grade, slip became -150 or so rpm. At -25rpm the converter unlocked. TPS was 9%, which is idle in my C5.
I have DFCO disabled right now. I did not see Coast as a mode of operation.

Ron

Lee12609

iTrader: (3)

sounds like everything is working like normal ron. converter unlocks below a certain speed when you let off the throttle to prevent bucking/surging and possibly stalling.