When racing what do you do?
When racing what do you do? well I think I have tried just about everything at the track and seems all about the same. So I wondering what everyone else is doing with there stalled and built 4l60e's
I have a 9" convertor with a 3600 stall and a built trans. I have flashed the convertor/ left at a idle and stalled it up. They all seem to get about the same 60ft except leaving at a deal idle. I avg a 1.73-1.77 60ft but I have done a best of 1.65. But I dont remember how I did it.
The second question I have is. Do you just leave it in drive or shift it manually? I have done both and they seem the same.
I plan on hitting up the track this Friday. So let me know what way you guys get your best 60ft.
I have a 9" convertor with a 3600 stall and a built trans. I have flashed the convertor/ left at a idle and stalled it up. They all seem to get about the same 60ft except leaving at a deal idle. I avg a 1.73-1.77 60ft but I have done a best of 1.65. But I dont remember how I did it.
The second question I have is. Do you just leave it in drive or shift it manually? I have done both and they seem the same.
I plan on hitting up the track this Friday. So let me know what way you guys get your best 60ft.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,285
Likes: 1
From: Elgin, Il
Just by knowing how an automatic transmission operates I can not imagine there being any benefit to shifting manually. Actually with how slow these respond to manual inputs I'd have an easier time believing that shifting manually would make the car slower. Even starting in "D/3" vs "OD" (a topic which has been beat to death on these forums it seems like) does not seem to make much difference, if any.
The one thing I do sometimes when traction is limited is keep it manually in first gear until your at WOT. The reason is, take my wifes T/A for example. The tires wanna spin right off the car at launch.... so as I feather it, sometimes the PCM wants to shift it into second gear (which I do NOT want). So I keep it in first manually just to make sure first gear gets wound out like it supposed to - then jam it in drive/overdrive and forget about it.
The one thing I do sometimes when traction is limited is keep it manually in first gear until your at WOT. The reason is, take my wifes T/A for example. The tires wanna spin right off the car at launch.... so as I feather it, sometimes the PCM wants to shift it into second gear (which I do NOT want). So I keep it in first manually just to make sure first gear gets wound out like it supposed to - then jam it in drive/overdrive and forget about it.
For the stall question all I can say on that is if you have traction issues as I do then try brake stalling it to around 2k-2.5k and roll into the throttle. That's been the best for me thus far, although I'd like to try and get the suspension figured out so I can hammer it from the go. I leave mine in od (trans am) as well, never tried leaving it in 3rd. My car would always hit the limiter if I tried to do it manually, but that's probably bc I was just too slow haha
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
well I think I have tried just about everything at the track and seems all about the same. So I wondering what everyone else is doing with there stalled and built 4l60e's
I have a 9" convertor with a 3600 stall and a built trans. I have flashed the convertor/ left at a idle and stalled it up. They all seem to get about the same 60ft except leaving at a deal idle. I avg a 1.73-1.77 60ft but I have done a best of 1.65. But I dont remember how I did it.
The second question I have is. Do you just leave it in drive or shift it manually? I have done both and they seem the same.
I plan on hitting up the track this Friday. So let me know what way you guys get your best 60ft.
I have a 9" convertor with a 3600 stall and a built trans. I have flashed the convertor/ left at a idle and stalled it up. They all seem to get about the same 60ft except leaving at a deal idle. I avg a 1.73-1.77 60ft but I have done a best of 1.65. But I dont remember how I did it.
The second question I have is. Do you just leave it in drive or shift it manually? I have done both and they seem the same.
I plan on hitting up the track this Friday. So let me know what way you guys get your best 60ft.
[QUOTE=FiredUpZ28;16737073]Just by knowing how an automatic transmission operates I can not imagine there being any benefit to shifting manually. Actually with how slow these respond to manual inputs I'd have an easier time believing that shifting manually would make the car slower. Even starting in "D/3" vs "OD" (a topic which has been beat to death on these forums it seems like) does not seem to make much difference, if any.
The one thing I do sometimes when traction is limited is keep it manually in first gear until your at WOT. The reason is, take my wifes T/A for example. The tires wanna spin right off the car at launch.... so as I feather it, sometimes the PCM wants to shift it into second gear (which I do NOT want). So I keep it in first manually just to make sure first gear gets wound out like it supposed to - then jam it in drive/overdrive and forget about it.[/QUOTE
Thanks for your input. I have left it in overdrive one time at the track and on the 3rd pass I busted my trans. I dont remember what part it was but I won't do that agin. My trans builder also told me not to leave it in overdrive but just drive.
I don't have really had any problem with it spinning. The m/t et streets 26/10.5 hook pretty good. So I have not had the problem when it spins and shifts when it doesn't need to. I will prolly be leaving it in drive for now on. I will keel playing with stalling it up and flashing the converter.
The one thing I do sometimes when traction is limited is keep it manually in first gear until your at WOT. The reason is, take my wifes T/A for example. The tires wanna spin right off the car at launch.... so as I feather it, sometimes the PCM wants to shift it into second gear (which I do NOT want). So I keep it in first manually just to make sure first gear gets wound out like it supposed to - then jam it in drive/overdrive and forget about it.[/QUOTE
Thanks for your input. I have left it in overdrive one time at the track and on the 3rd pass I busted my trans. I dont remember what part it was but I won't do that agin. My trans builder also told me not to leave it in overdrive but just drive.
I don't have really had any problem with it spinning. The m/t et streets 26/10.5 hook pretty good. So I have not had the problem when it spins and shifts when it doesn't need to. I will prolly be leaving it in drive for now on. I will keel playing with stalling it up and flashing the converter.
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Yeah 1.65 is pretty good. I would be happy if I avg that everytime but I have only done that once. I have not been back in the 6's again, all in the 1.7 range.
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Verdad Gallardo I dont think I really need to say what my mods are. My question on here is for everyone with a stalled 4l60e. What do they do at the track, and what has worked best for them?
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
When you are asking for help like this, you have to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges! What works for one set up will be a complete disaster for other set ups! If you want to learn, learn right!
What works for me:
Put trans in D (not OD, overrun clutches are not applied in OD, more detrimental to trans life)
Footbrake to 1500-1800
Are you running a DR, Slick, or street tire? Knowing your mods would definietly help pinpoint if there is something that could be holding you back from a better 60 ft, like running 3.08 gears and a 3600 stall.
Put trans in D (not OD, overrun clutches are not applied in OD, more detrimental to trans life)
Footbrake to 1500-1800
Are you running a DR, Slick, or street tire? Knowing your mods would definietly help pinpoint if there is something that could be holding you back from a better 60 ft, like running 3.08 gears and a 3600 stall.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
1. Page 3 of the ATSG manual is WRONG about the Overrun clutches in [D]. In fact they are NOT applied in 1st or 2nd gear, but are applied in 3rd gear.
2. The correct table is Page 11 (Figure 10) of GM's official "Hydra-matic 4L60-E Technician's Guide".
3. Therefore, many people recommend keeping it in [OD] so that the Overrun clutch is not applied during the 2-3 shift so that more fluid pressure is available for the critical 3/4 clutch. In other words, you want ALL available fluid and pressure engaging the 3/4 clutch and not being diverted to the overrun clutch.
4. Sonnax makes part number 77754-41 which does engage the Overrun clutch in [D3] for all gears. If you have this part installed (as I do), then and only then would you want to start in [D3]. Here is a link to their description:
http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/77754-41.pdf
This also show sthe correct Overrun clutch table for the stock trans and their mod.
Hate to bring up this "beat to death" topic, but I hate to see wrong info repeat itself here. Let me summarize:
1. Page 3 of the ATSG manual is WRONG about the Overrun clutches in [D]. In fact they are NOT applied in 1st or 2nd gear, but are applied in 3rd gear.
2. The correct table is Page 11 (Figure 10) of GM's official "Hydra-matic 4L60-E Technician's Guide".
3. Therefore, many people recommend keeping it in [OD] so that the Overrun clutch is not applied during the 2-3 shift so that more fluid pressure is available for the critical 3/4 clutch. In other words, you want ALL available fluid and pressure engaging the 3/4 clutch and not being diverted to the overrun clutch.
4. Sonnax makes part number 77754-41 which does engage the Overrun clutch in [D3] for all gears. If you have this part installed (as I do), then and only then would you want to start in [D3]. Here is a link to their description:
http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/77754-41.pdf
This also show sthe correct Overrun clutch table for the stock trans and their mod.
1. Page 3 of the ATSG manual is WRONG about the Overrun clutches in [D]. In fact they are NOT applied in 1st or 2nd gear, but are applied in 3rd gear.
2. The correct table is Page 11 (Figure 10) of GM's official "Hydra-matic 4L60-E Technician's Guide".
3. Therefore, many people recommend keeping it in [OD] so that the Overrun clutch is not applied during the 2-3 shift so that more fluid pressure is available for the critical 3/4 clutch. In other words, you want ALL available fluid and pressure engaging the 3/4 clutch and not being diverted to the overrun clutch.
4. Sonnax makes part number 77754-41 which does engage the Overrun clutch in [D3] for all gears. If you have this part installed (as I do), then and only then would you want to start in [D3]. Here is a link to their description:
http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/77754-41.pdf
This also show sthe correct Overrun clutch table for the stock trans and their mod.
Well I guess my simple question of what everyone else is doing at the track, didn't work out as well as u wanted it to.
Well here is my setup. I have a 2000 reg cab s10 with a 2000 ls1. It has tsp heads, ms3 cam, fast 92mm setup, 1 3/4 LT headers. It's making 440 rwhp and 402 torque. I have a stage 2 built trans from century a sponsor on here. a 9" vigilante 3600 stall and a built 10 bolt rear end with 4:10 gears. My tires are m/t et street 26/10.5/15 my suspension it what hurts me the most. My truck has air bags with a 2 link and pan hard bar, with a blazer sway bar.
Well here is my setup. I have a 2000 reg cab s10 with a 2000 ls1. It has tsp heads, ms3 cam, fast 92mm setup, 1 3/4 LT headers. It's making 440 rwhp and 402 torque. I have a stage 2 built trans from century a sponsor on here. a 9" vigilante 3600 stall and a built 10 bolt rear end with 4:10 gears. My tires are m/t et street 26/10.5/15 my suspension it what hurts me the most. My truck has air bags with a 2 link and pan hard bar, with a blazer sway bar.
Well I guess my simple question of what everyone else is doing at the track, didn't work out as well as u wanted it to.
Well here is my setup. I have a 2000 reg cab s10 with a 2000 ls1. It has tsp heads, ms3 cam, fast 92mm setup, 1 3/4 LT headers. It's making 440 rwhp and 402 torque. I have a stage 2 built trans from century a sponsor on here. a 9" vigilante 3600 stall and a built 10 bolt rear end with 4:10 gears. My tires are m/t et street 26/10.5/15 my suspension it what hurts me the most. My truck has air bags with a 2 link and pan hard bar, with a blazer sway bar.
Well here is my setup. I have a 2000 reg cab s10 with a 2000 ls1. It has tsp heads, ms3 cam, fast 92mm setup, 1 3/4 LT headers. It's making 440 rwhp and 402 torque. I have a stage 2 built trans from century a sponsor on here. a 9" vigilante 3600 stall and a built 10 bolt rear end with 4:10 gears. My tires are m/t et street 26/10.5/15 my suspension it what hurts me the most. My truck has air bags with a 2 link and pan hard bar, with a blazer sway bar.
C5 Vette. 3450lbs with driver. PB level 2 4L60. Yank SS3600. 3.42 gear. Hoosier 245/45/17 (26 x9) Drag Radials.
I have been inching up the leave RPM. Depends on how good the track seems to be.
1600 RPM nets 1.58 60ft. It does not spin.
So, does your truck spin? How much does it weigh? My son's early S10 with a 350 SB is right at 3000 lbs.
Have you data logged the runs? You can learn a lot about what is really happening engine wise this way. I assume you are not drive by wire?
I need more info about the D3/D4 stuff.....I've been running mine in D3......
Ron
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,323
Likes: 529
From: Ann Arbor, MI
Here is the thread where WRT, Jake and I go over the D3/D4 issue:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...-drive-od.html
I recall another thread where Frank at PerformaBuilt recommends keeping it in [D4] so that the overrun clutch doesn't "steal" pressure from the 3/4 clutch during the 2-3 shift. This is what slow67 points out in the thread above.
I think very few performance "built" transmission have the Sonnax 2-3 shift valve. For one thing, it requires an irreversible mod to the valve body. Also when in D3, you really feel the 3-2 and 2-1 shifts when the car slows.
Staging Lane
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
The thing about these high stall converters are that they multiply torque. When you flash converters close to their stall, it's done multiplying torque. Torque multiplication is what really moves the car. Launching low around 2,000 for a 3500 stall will let the converter do it's thing. My best 60 foot was 1.709, launching at 2,000 rpm, laying smoothly into the throttle (relatively speaking), with the shortest heat cycle from the burnout. And, I race in "3", then shift to "D" once 3rd has run out (because of that crazy short gear!)
______________________________________
01 Firebird Formula A4, cloth int, t-tops
Built by Next Level Performance, Orlando, FL
Trans built by Transmissions Plus, Kissimmee, FL
Motor : 383ci 11:1 comp, 6-bolt main, windage tray, forged eagle rods, forged mahle pistons, forged crank, oil pump from a '11 CTS-V, Magnum 5/16 pushrods, dual valvesprings w/ti retainers, 42 lb inj, LS6 intake, '02 ZO6 heads, competition valve job, Comp Cams 230/236 114+4 XER, K&N intake, 255 lph fuel pump, American Racing 1-3/4" LTs, 3" y-pipe high flow cats, 3" manual cutout (which stays open for all eternity)
Driveline : FTI3500, built 4L60E, big trans cooler, PST 3.5' driveshaft, 1350 yoke, Strange S60 4.10
Suspension : BMR k-member, BMR upper&lower front CA, BMR rear lower CA, adj torque arm, panhard bar, stock struts
Running NT555R 315/35R17 on the back
Dynos in at 393 rwhp / 377 rwtq
before the cam and exhaust, ran 12.38 @ 109 / 1.709 60' 85 degree track temp
Thank you Geoff, Ty, Dave, and Jesse for all of your hard work!
______________________________________
01 Firebird Formula A4, cloth int, t-tops
Built by Next Level Performance, Orlando, FL
Trans built by Transmissions Plus, Kissimmee, FL
Motor : 383ci 11:1 comp, 6-bolt main, windage tray, forged eagle rods, forged mahle pistons, forged crank, oil pump from a '11 CTS-V, Magnum 5/16 pushrods, dual valvesprings w/ti retainers, 42 lb inj, LS6 intake, '02 ZO6 heads, competition valve job, Comp Cams 230/236 114+4 XER, K&N intake, 255 lph fuel pump, American Racing 1-3/4" LTs, 3" y-pipe high flow cats, 3" manual cutout (which stays open for all eternity)
Driveline : FTI3500, built 4L60E, big trans cooler, PST 3.5' driveshaft, 1350 yoke, Strange S60 4.10
Suspension : BMR k-member, BMR upper&lower front CA, BMR rear lower CA, adj torque arm, panhard bar, stock struts
Running NT555R 315/35R17 on the back
Dynos in at 393 rwhp / 377 rwtq
before the cam and exhaust, ran 12.38 @ 109 / 1.709 60' 85 degree track temp
Thank you Geoff, Ty, Dave, and Jesse for all of your hard work!
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Denmark
mrvedit :
You said that with the sonnax piece you would feel significant 3-2 and 2-1 downshifts when slowing.
I have no idea if mine have the sonnax piece. In OD it downshifts smoothly into every gear. But in D it will downshift very hard 3-2. But still smooth 2-1.
What is the explanation on this?
Its a built 700r4.
Posted from LS1Tech.com App for Android
You said that with the sonnax piece you would feel significant 3-2 and 2-1 downshifts when slowing.
I have no idea if mine have the sonnax piece. In OD it downshifts smoothly into every gear. But in D it will downshift very hard 3-2. But still smooth 2-1.
What is the explanation on this?
Its a built 700r4.
Posted from LS1Tech.com App for Android