stevebbc

iTrader: (4)

Braiden1, have not installed these yet but just wanted to see if I had the right sequence and orientation for the bearing, shim, and bushing?

thanks,
steve

braiden1

Yes, Remove the old case bushing and install the new one from the tailhousing side. Then install the shim and the bearing (Black side down) into the case. Check your endplay and use more shims if needed. You want to be around .010" - .015".

stevebbc

iTrader: (4)

Thanks again!

Tattooed80

If you call Jake's Performance, He offers a stage 2 kit that comes complete with everything you need, including the rollerizing of rear with proper .020 shim and bearing, a machined forward hub with a machined bearing, new sprag, low roller and overdrive clutchs, bushings, seals upgraded clutches and etc...I also know he can provide you with a new overdrive section from an early style.

I would also recommend changing the intermediate shaft to an early style to help with proper lubing, the late shaft is blocked and we find it better to add that as well.

There is really no reason to buy the no walk out bushing, a th 400 case bushing is just as effective, and you can drive it a hair more into the case to catch the shim and bearing.

If your going to use nitrous or exceed 800hp I would recommend some billet upgrades.

braiden1

See, this is what I'm talking about. Why would it not be a good simple upgrade? It only cost $6-$8 retail @ most online stores. It measures .690" (Stock=.425") so, it will provide better support and it has lube slots to keep it lubricated. Also provides a support for the rear bearing.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

A TH400 bushing is .620" wide, has lube slots, and costs 1/3 of the no-walk out bushing.

The no walk bushing is great if it's needed, but installing it from the rear defeats it's purpose.
Installing it from the correct direction and the torrington bearing won't fit without machining the bushing.

I don't see the need to buy something and defeat it's purpose by misinstalling it, when there are just as effective options for less.

90% of 4L80E's will have good endplay when using a .020" shim and torrington in the back. The shims are available in .005, .010, .015, .020, and .030".

Our 4L80E Stage 2 kit comes with ALL the upgrades we use on our builds AND an instruction sheet that provides build and hydraulic tricks.

braiden1

I guess the kids got put to bed and dad had to come out to reply. Here you go people, the stock 4l80e bushing is .425" and free, the stock th400 bushing is .620" and cost $2, and the sonnax bushing is .490" and cost $6. Pick whatever fits your budget. In the transmission business there is no such thing as "Defeating its purpose". If it works for you and has no negative effect on the build it's O.K. Using the hollow intermediate shaft on a rear lube type 4L80 is a miss installation per GM, but has been common practice by builders to get better lube to the forward drum, direct drum, and OD planet. The point is, I'm only trying to help and not push products. If the bushing breaks the bank then cut the corner and call Jake.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

Giving away a tip that saves enthusiasts money (like using the TH400 bushing instead of misinstalling the no-walk bushing) isn't "pushing product" or cutting a corner. It's saving them money. Our 4L80E techniques are proven on 1600+ HP combinations. We have scores of these units at over 1000 RWHP.

It doesn't make me any money to tell these types of things on an open forum.

Do your research, I was sharing information on forums long before I was in business for myself. Some of the tricks you have shared in this thread were not well known in public before I started sharing them over a decade ago.

The natural progression for me has been from helping on the forums as an enthusiast to becoming well known for my unique products and quality builds.
Unfortunately my free time is less now so I don't have as much time to frequent the forums. I don't think that lessens the value of what we do here offering help and products for the enthusiast. If you do your research you'll find there is a reason we are in high demand.

Why don't you tell us what unique products you have developed and marketed for the 4L80E? Or any other unit?

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

I don't work for any company on this board anymore at the moment, so I'll just say it to you now, shut the **** up

You complain WAAAYYYY too much. Seriously. I'm not just referring to anything in this thread either, I'm referring to since you joined this forum. You have your moments when you can be helpful, but then you ruin it with your BS and sarcasm.

Jake isn't my boss, so I have nothing to gain from vouching for him, but he's been on forums for over a decade now (Ok LS1Tech only 7+ years) giving out advice, teaching people about transmissions and even putting up DIY building guides for things like TH350s or various other projects people may otherwise be to intimidated to attempt at home without a solid guide as a foundation for the procedure.

What have you done for this forum? Really? Aside from making consistent sarcastic remarks about Jake or his employees (aka me), you've thrown out a few tech related posts, some solid, some questionable. Jake has paid his dues by giving out advice to people who needed it for years, so when he was finally able to reap the benefits of his hard work and knowledge put into this field, he became a paid sponsor on here so he could push his products on here without breaking LS1Tech's rules. Trust me, the sponsors on tech pay a lot more per month for the sponsorship than most people on here would guess, they ALL have earned the right to push their products. Jake isn't even pushing his product in the current argument. He's advocating the use a TH400 bushing, which as you said is $2.

There are a TON of the members on here with high horsepower 4L80E/TH400 combos that were built by either me, Jake, Mike (Tattooed80) or Cody. All of those people have been extremely satisfied with the product they received and the company has built it's reputation by pushing out a product that is proven to work, some methods that you know and have been known for awhile, some that are proprietary. When Jake offers people who would like to do a rebuild on their own the same parts he uses in all of the builds, a lot of people are pretty cool with that idea. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Jake's is not a parts assembler, they're innovators who are constantly designing and improving upon things to deliver an even better product, even if the customer is not aware. Literally, we would all go home and have transmissions on the mind, even in our sleep. My desk is still littered with various 4L80E parts and hydraulic maps. I STILL think about them constantly.

You have a whopping 35 posts on here and here are some of the things you've had to say in your short time here:

"You might want to call the company who built your unit. Ask for that 19yrs. old seasoned builder (elitze) who probably built your unit and is always jumping in any 4l80 related post when there is something to sell."

"Expecting a fraternity between transmission techs and those interested in an open forum discussion on the inner workings and fundamentals of transmission building, found it was more of a marketing scheme to pan handle parts for someone in search of the "American Dream" (mostly coming from your builder).

I have not come to infiltrate LS1TECH as you mentioned. I have not tried to sell my services or even dissuade costumers from going to your shop. Your paranoia says it all, you are a beginner in your business and I struck a nerve. For that I do apologize. In regards to your crash course in transmission building, NASA also teaches monkeys how to fly planes but, I would not go as far as to call them pilots."

"...that is a crazy story but, it seems to be the pattern around here. Like I have said before it feels more like a swap meet than a tech site and those who don't really know about transmissions get fooled by words like "innovator" and "hydraulic expert" basic bait and hook lingo."

"I guess the kids got put to bed and dad had to come out to reply."

You've tried to compare your life to Jake's like it's some sort of dick measuring content. Congrats, you have a fleet account with Enterprise. We've never had one of THOSE before Just remember the trash talking started from your end. I hate being "that guy" who looks like a douche for calling someone out on their bullshit.



Lastly, I just want to apologize to everyone else who read this and felt the whole thing got a little out of hand. I love giving advice to people on here, and I've helped a lot of people on here who have PM'd me even over the phone. Mrvedit, I owe you a phone call as well, since we missed each other last time, but my phone had an awesome long fall onto a hard surface so it's been a bit delayed, apologies for that. Some of you I have helped on weekends while I'm at home diagnosing problems with your 80es or 400s, helping with build advice etc. Hell, one guy bought a kit from Jake for a 400 who, to be honest, probably had no business even attempting the rebuild, but I walked him through the build from output shaft bushing to assembly of the pump, to the valve body. START TO FINISH. Mind you, this was mostly because it was my last week and my tech support over the phone was ongoing even after I left Jake's to move down to the Houston area for school. Anybody else who ever needs help with a build has always been welcome to PM me and always will be.

For the record, there IS such thing as defeating the purpose in transmission building. If you buy a bushing that is specifically for the purpose of NOT walking out, and install it backwards so that it CAN walk out, that is defeating the purpose of the bushing. When a cheaper option appears that will do the job better, why should someone not do that? Just sayin'.

Tattooed80

Kids....HA HA, Jake And I are the same age first of all, second I give more advice and tech tips via email, phone and forum in a day than you do in a week. We have broken our backs to achieve our status in this industry. I have been with jake through all the heart aches and bumps in the road. We have a goal: To be the best at what we do, and always be there for the customers. I personally have replied to emails till 3 am to international and domestic customers.

We even help the DIY guys who are not customers. He has achieved a status which is well deserved. Jake's Performance was started from scratch by Jake, not investors or bank loan. He has built this company with every penny he has made. He has made leaps and bounds in this industry.

I can say we do not have a fleet account, but then again we do not have time with the volume of orders and calls in the last 3 years. I have personally built 100+ transmissions this year alone for vehicles in 500 to 2500 hp range. Your advice is helpful to most and sound for the most part but as you said I am here to help, so are we all...

If I refer a product via Jake's Performance I am helping, How you might ask?
Our complete kits are cheaper than if a DIY tried to walk in and buy each piece from Transtar or some other company i.e Guy off street wants master kit for an 80 (right one) there is $500, sprags are about $50 to $60 so on and so forth. We all have the right to do and say what we widh here( staying in the guide lines of course).

Just give your advice we will give ours and people will choose their own course of action.

Keep in mind Jake is up their with Griner, Rossler, Kilgore, Hughes, Coan etc.. whom he speaks with most on weekly basis on a business and personal level.

Enjoy your day.

braiden1

Wow! I did not know you were the one who started the practice of using steel alloys like 4340 and 300M to make shafts, hubs, and carries for performance use. I did not know you were the one who started using the 4T80E sprag assembly and transplanting it to a th400/4l80e direct drum assembly with proper lubing and calling it the "Supper Drum". And I sure did not know you invented the concept of taking exciting fluid paths and rerouting them to apply low & reverse together and create an internal brake turned on and off via a solenoid. I assume you also invented the practice of dual feeding, blocking accumulators, drilling feed holes, and uping pressure.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

I don't believe anybody made that claim. It seems reading comprehension is a challenge for you.

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

Wow I did not know Jake or I even claimed to be the inventors of any of that. I love the part (aka all of your post) where you trying to put words in our mouth.

Question for you, since you didn't answer Jake, I'll ask it again. What have YOU contributed to the racing transmission world? If you're going to call any of us out, we'd first like to know what you've done. Did you design a forward pattern automatic shifting TH400 transbrake? Did you design ANY 4L80E brakes, let alone the two fastest releasing in the industry? Have you designed ANY TH400 brakes? Have you designed any parts? Have you designed your own super drum? Your own billet OD carrier? Your own anything? At all?

By the way, can you explain to me what an "exciting" fluid path is? What's a "Supper" Drum? Can you eat it?

braiden1

I've known John Kilgore for years and his builder Jimmy G. I also use Coan parts, Grainer and Rossler Brakes, and Jerry at The Converter Shop does most of our speacialty parts. I go to the ATRA show, SEMA, and PRI yearly and have almost met everyone. So throwing out big names in the transmission business does not impress me. All I see is a so called master machinist who knows how to copy and make things on his own. Your adjustable PR valve looks alot like Kilgores concept, Your manual box looks alot like Rosslers. I never claimed to be in selling parts business, I build long lasting durable units and here to help the novice. Period!!

SnIpEz

iTrader: (4)

You're totally avoiding the question. No one asked if you're in the selling parts business. We asked what have YOU designed to contribute to the industry? You are fond of calling out the people who have made contributions and making snide comments, so we'd like to know what makes you so special. if you're here to help the novice, then why are over 10% over your posts smartass provoking comments towards people who never had a problem with you in the first place?

Everything made at Jake's has it's own twist to it. Hughes and Transking's TH400 brakes look very similar, but they each have their own little twists that make them unique. Is one stealing from the other? If Griner invented the transbrake, does that mean he is the only one who can make them? You can say a LOT of products in the industry look a lot like someone elses. There are only so many ways to achieve a certain end result. The challenge is to do it better and cheaper, to save the shop on overhead costs and to save the customer money.

All I see is a guy who dodges questions asked directly to him multiple times, talks about being an ASE Master Tech to somehow validate his qualifications and then when he is clearly one upped, tries to talk down on the other guys achievements and throwing out insulting names. I also see a guy who is downtalking someone else for creating things when he has never once contributed something worth a damn at all. If Jake is such a novice, as you were quoted above saying, then why have you not made a bigger name than him in the industry?

mrvedit

Well, this started out as a great thread. I was even tempted to buy a 4L80E off Craigslist just to learn the rebuild process, and the many ways it is different from a 4L60E.
It is so sad to see someone who could potentially contribute here, instead self-destruct over and over again. It is certainly interesting and potentially useful to see differences in opinion, but not when they degenerate into personal attacks.

braiden1

I apologize to the forum and to those trying to learn for veering off the subject. I will refrain to pure tech talk only. Here is another tip, but first a little back story. Back in '96 when the 4L80E HD-2 kit was all the rage, we kept receiving units with the kit installed completely burned up in as low as 10K. Some so badly damaged from heat they were melting the plastic accumulators. The first thing was the Trango boost valve that we looked at they were wearing out super fast and Transgo new this, that is why they have you do a pressure releif mod to the valvebody to prevent high line pressure damage. Next was the severe slip conditions. The industry thought it was a worn AFL or even bad sealing rings in the center support. Transgo even came out with their AFL repair kit and special high temp rings. The true problem was in the plate they provided to use on the dual feeding. The kit got revamped to the kit you see today.

braiden1

What they left behind was a form of dual feeding the direct clutches from both sides, giving you a faster even apply of the directs. We used this info and revamped the technique. If you have a copy of an old Transgo HD-2 kit here you go. You will need a drill press or a mill to this. Get 5/32" copper tubing, some epoxy, 5/32" drill, and some aluminum welding rod. On page 4 drill the two corner holes closest to each other only as close to the edge as possible. Next take your 5/32" tubing and bend the ends to a 90 degree elbow about 7/64" deep on both sides. The total length of the tube should be about 1 5/16" with the two ends bent down.

braiden1

Next clear the valvebody walls to let the tubing sit below the casting. Remember the pressure switch manifold will be sitting on top of the pipe and you want it to be able too sit flush. With the walls cleared for the tube, put the tube in the drilled holes making sure they don't get in the way of the shift valves. Mix some epoxy and apply on the base of the tubing. Let dry for the required time and your done. The next mod will be on the seperator plate. With the aluminum welding rod plug the reverse slot and the orifice exhaust hole on page 5.

braiden1

This takes some practice so try it out first on a junk seperator plate until you are comfortable doing it. The final step is removing the #11 check ball from the valvebody, the #8&9 check ***** from the case. This will provide a leak free dual feed on both sides of the directs. When choosing an overhaul kit, I recommend the Precision or TTK kit because they supply a heavier 1-2 shift spring that helps out and plug the 3rd accumulator. Shift hole mods will depend on your build. Enjoy.