fishcrazy

Hi everybody. I have a 2006 Escalade ESV with some transmission problems. The truck suddenly stoped having movement in reverse. It seems to primarily slip when engaged as opposed to moving although it does move slightly. I have read that and been told that the sun dome is notorious for failing in these units and this also produces a failed 2 forward gears as well. I am experiencing no failure in the forward gears at all. I discovered the failed reverse after being 400 miles into a 900 mile trip which I compleated in forward gear withoput using reverse so I know they all work fine. For now anyway.

I know the unit has to be rebuilt. Im guessing that the reverse clutch is the problem here. Any other suggestions as to what may otherwise be the problem that do not involve the removal of the transmission would be greatly appreciated. Baring any other options Im pointed at removal and rebuild of the unit. Correct me if I am wrong but I think I am running a 4l65e unit in this vehicle. any suggestions of what rebuild kit to use and what upgrades to do is what I am after. Thanks for any help and advice.

mrvedit

GM hardened the sun shell around 2003 and those failures are very rare after that.

While a worn reverse clutch could be the problem, a failure of the teflon seals for the reverse drum is also likely (and perhaps most likely).
I'm pretty sure the trans will have to be removed. It is possible that only the pump needs to be removed to replace the teflon seals, but if they have failed, I suspect the entire trans is due for a rebuild.

I would suggest finding a local privately-owned (not chain) trans shop for the rebuild. Most buy their rebuild kits from distributor Transtar. Make sure a 4L65E rebuild kit is used (even if your trans is a 4L60E) and that it includes 7 Hi-Energy frictions.
GM upgraded a lot of parts in 2003 to handle the LS2 engine and you should be good to go.

fishcrazy

Thanks fo rthe reply. I have always enjoyed doing my own mechanical work and I was thinking about trying the rebuild myself. I may be just nuts or crazy. Never rebuilt one but there is always a first time I guess. I will look into transtar. Thanks for the tip.

mrvedit

I've posted this before, but let me post it again:
Here are my words of wisdom:
If you are doing this to save money, STOP! Between the cost of the special tools and my estimate that less than half of 1st time builders get a working trans on their first try, this is not a good plan.
However, if your goal is to learn about transmissions and will enjoy the process, then go for it. Here are some threads to help you get started:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...p-rebuild.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...-get-them.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...60e-parts.html

As mentioned in one of those threads, while the ATSG manual is useful, this has detailed procedures and color pictures:


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I don't think you can buy directly from Transtar, but you might consider an ebay seller like "Trutechtrans" who's owner (Jeff) is very knowledgeable and reachable. He sells this quality 4L65E kit (for 2003-2012) which would work well for you for $190:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-LEVE...-/251046519607

If you did indeed have a failed teflon ring for the reverse drum, you should figure on another $100 for a new reverse drum. (The rings are on the pump's stator shaft but run inside the reverse drum; if they fail, the often ruin the drum.)

I know that member and rebuilder Carsonauto is also getting into the business of selling rebuild kits and aftermarket parts. He might offer you a similar kit and price.

Ted.

carlsonauto

You would be correct ted. We have everything in stock and ready to go. I am also more than happy to help in any way I can.

fishcrazy

mrvedit thanks for the info. I looked at the link for the rebuild kit you provided and was browsing through the other kits they offer and came across this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-ULTI...item3cc21939e2


I do tow a 24 ft boat with this vehicle and it caught my eye. Is this something that I should consider or is it not necessary?

Also is this year model already equiped with the hardened sun dome or should I plan on replacing the unit that is in the transmission? From what I have be able to determine the sun shells were upgraded by GM starting in 03. Is that correct and can I visually determine if the existing one is the hardened one?

I was looking on EBAY for reman units for sale and found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251116168713...S:1123&vxp=mtr

The seller is shiftritetransmissions. Anyone know them and their work? Looks like a decent price on that unit but it is not clear from the add what the shipping and core charges are going to be .

Thanks again for the help.

carlsonauto

Yes the sun shells were hardened after 2003 but that does not mean that yours will still be good. We still replace them if there is any wear in the spline areas at all. Also that kit you are looking at on ebay has the wide band, make sure that if you use a wide band the reverse input drum gets replaced with a NEW one. If you dont replace it the band will most likely burn up.

The transmission on ebay you are looking at is a lot of transmission for the money IF it has everything that he claims it does. I am very much not a fan of his choice of 3-4 clutch packs. 9 frictions in a factory input drum does not work in my experience, If you do a quick search you can read for hours about why that is. I am not the only one on here that wont use that many clutches in a factory drum, also its just plain not necessary to have that many if built properly in the first place. At least not for your application. IMHO there are a few things that should be done that are not on his list as well.

If you do end up doing it yourself make sure that you get at least a corvette servo and a .500 boost valve in addition to the parts you see in those kits on ebay. There is a hanful of other things that you SHOULD do too but those are a must in my book if you are towing with it..

fishcrazy

I sure do appreciate the advice carlsonauto. Been doing some reading about the rebuilds and seems that I did see that thing about the 9 steels somewhere. I would welcome any and all suggestions of other upgrades that you would recommend that I SHOULD do as well. Thanks in advance for those tips.

Since you put together these rebuild kits as well I would like to hear from you regarding your offerings if you have that operation up and running yet. I did not see a web page for you but you vcan message me if you like.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

PBA

I use the Borg Warner Hi-Energy 9 clutch (4L65E clutches) setup all the time in my Pro Street units and kits using the 1987 and up input drum without any problems.

mrvedit

You can visually tell the hardened GM sun shells (2003 and later) by the blue color on the tabs. As Carsonauto points out, even those should be replaced if there is any wear on them. An increasing number of builders prefer to replace them with the Sonnax Smart Shell which has other advantages too.

The Reverse drum should also be replaced if you plan on using a wide band or there is any wear in the area where the teflon rings run.

fishcrazy

Im curious if the computer in a vehicle has to be reset or something so that there is no problem from it continuing to apply compensation to the transmission after the new rebuild has been reinstalled. I was told that the computer is not smart enough to relearn the properly fixed transmission settings. Is that true? A local rebuilder gave me this info and said if he does a bench rebuild for me I need to bring it to him after the reinstall so the he can do something to it to tell it there has been a change or clear codes or something of that nature.

carlsonauto

He is talking about the adaptive shift strategy that the computer learns and uses small line pressure adjustments to control the length of shifts. It is a good idea to reset it when the transmission is rebuilt or modified. I am not aware of a way to reset it other than using a scan tool with bi-directional controls. There may or may not be a way to do it. I have never tried, I just plug into them and do it that way because I have the technology.

Also on a side note make sure that the MAF sensor gets cleaned after the rebuild too.

fishcrazy

Thanks for the info carlsonauto. That MAF sensor seems like a good thing to clean. I never knew that. Im definately going to get after that. A rebuilder told me that the 4l80 unit needed that but the 4l65e did not require the reset. I dont know that to be right or wrong though. Mine is the 4l65e.

Im getting ready to drop this thing and am wondering if I should leave the transfer case connected or if that is even feasable to do. Any takers on this one?

carlsonauto

Take the transfer case off!! Remove the nuts that hold the case to the adapter dont remove the bolts that hold the adapter to the trans because you most likely wont be able to get it back far enough to clear the output shaft of the transmission to get it out.

carlsonauto

also the 4l60e/65e/70e does have adaptive shift strategy. It is an "automatic constant learning feature" for lack of better description. It basically learns how your trans shifts and adjusts line pressure to bring the shift closer to the way it thinks it needs to shift (preprogrammed by the fine folks at gm) If you dont reset it it will learn to shift as it normally would even if it was reset but it may be slightly more of a harsh or soft shift until it does relearn depending upon how its "memory" of the old transmission was. In all honesty I dont reset the adaptive shift strategy unless I put a trans in and take it for a drive and it does something that makes me cringe. Usually they are ok but sometimes they are crabby about life...

fishcrazy

Thanks for that carlsonauto. Do you know what I am looking at in terms of time for the computer to adapt to the new unit in the event that there is a harsh event going on. That would probably freak me out if something is really out of the norm when I put the thing back in.

carlsonauto

It most likely wont be an issue but depending on how you drive and where it could take anywhere from a hour to a few days. Im not really sure what the criteria is for the pcm to start learning but its pretty unlikely that you will have an issue with that either way. I had one one about a year ago that for some reaon I couldnt get the adaptive to clear and the converter had failed over a period of about 2 weeks so it was all messed up. It took about an hour and a half of me driving it and intentionally stopping and running it through the gears every few minutes for it to start acting correctly.

mrvedit

As I understand it, the PCM monitors the engine RPM and vehicle speed during the shift. If the shift seems slow, e.g. slippage detected, it increases the line pressure for future shifts.

fishcrazy

So assuming the PCM has adjusted for slippage which I dont think it has been slipping but when I put it back in the car it should be seeing higher than normal line pressure under those assumptions? That would then soon readjust and be normal then and I should not worry if there is an erratic shift or something till I run it a bit. I suppose I should worry if the thing will not engage any gears or something drastic like that though? Or could it be that drastic in the relearning process?

I have procured a transmission jack and the suggested rebuild manual and am awating the rebuild kit to arrive. I dont know what exactly comes with the rebuild kit that I ordered from truteck but this is the one I ended up ordering and the guy there was very helpful in the process.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRUTECH-ULTI...item3cc21939e2

I also ordered a new sun shell and reverse input drum. Think that is adequate? Didnt order a Torque Converter though. What do you see that I may have forgot that isnt in the kit?

mrvedit

I think you are right - the line pressure might start a little higher. You are over-worrying and over-thinking this. Worst case, go to a trans shop that can reset the PCM. (The HP Tuners Scanner has that capability.) However I doubt you will need that.
That looks like a good kit and adding a new sunshell and reverse drum are excellent additions.

I would suggest adding a Sonnax .500 Boost valve which increases the maximum available line pressure and reduces slippage at high throttle. I would need to see a picture of your pump to determine which model is correct; the wrong one could damage your trans by creationg too low or too high a pressure. Here is the doco on selecting the right boost valve:

http://www.sonnax.com/system/instruc...LB1-LB2-IN.pdf

I assume you ordered the book I suggested and not just the ATSG manual.
GM made some changes starting in 06. Primarily the pump was changed to support an Input Speed Sensor (ISS) and the pump seal was changed from an O-ring to a seal on the case. Probably a bit later than 06, the 3-2 downshift solenoid was also eliminated. I suspect that some, but not all 06 models had these changes.