DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

i cant find a photo of the tci's internals for the exact converter the OP is talking about but this one is the closest i could find http://www.tciauto.com/tc/727-ultima...ing-platehtml/ which looks decent. i was thinking $500 tci. and fyi for jake here is where im seeing photos of parts http://www.protorque.com/torque-conv...ons-parts.html

JustAFooL

iTrader: (45)

Probably one of the funniest posts I've seen in a while..

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

what really bothers me is the average joe hot rodder cant go to the different websites that sell torque converters and view a list of internal componants along with reasons why i should buy their product. why is that? are torque converter builders really a secret society? i searched & searched until i found a product that specified several parts after which i called & emailed the manufacturer with questions. finally satisfied i made a purchase.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

There are only few major components to a torque converter.
Pump, stator, turbine, cover, and clutch if applicable.

That's pretty much the point I've been trying to make as that there isn't a significant difference in the internal components used no matter where the converter comes from. There may be NO difference.

You start out with a basic core, using a pump and stator to make the stall speed, possibly modifying these parts.

You can change the stator from a roller clutch to a mechanical diode, actual sprag, or to a solid stator (spragless) with commonly available parts or kits.

Many of the kits also include new bearings, upgraded bearings, or end caps to upgrade from thrust washers to bearings.

You can use a ring to adapt the stock cover, or a billet cover.

An impeller hub (usually flanged) and heat treated turbine hub are standard in the kits because they must be changed anyway as part of the converter build to mate up to a RWD trans and engine. So this isn't even a "selling point" to me because without it, the converter wouldn't fit your application.

And there isn't much difference visually to the untrained eye inside a converter. So that is why many likely don't show what they do.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

hey jake , how about this question. if you had a buddy & you werent in the business what suggestions / items / features would you tell him to have the converter builder use / add? (for a 400/500 rwhp street - strip converter). thx.

Jake's Performance

iTrader: (2)

For what type of transmission?

Circle-D

iTrader: (21)

Thought I would chime in here to clear up some things, at least about what Circle D offers. First we will touch on our billet parts. We design and manufacturer all our single disk and multi disk billet parts in house, we do not buy them from the suppliers Jake is referring to. We start off with a 60 pound forging that is produced in the USA, very proud of that, that gets machined in house down to ~12 pounds depending on the transmission type and single or multi disk. We have continually improved and offer several advantages over the conventional industry billet front. Some of which are, a better pad design that moves the load to the side of the converter, deeper threads for better thread engagement, better curves to prevent flexing under high RPM and power. We add a deep groove ball bering on the turbine hub for extreme efficiency and it removes the load from the stator support bushing at high RPM. Our multi disk clutch pack has heat treated steels to prevent any wear on the clutch teeth eliminating the rattle commonly associated with a multi disk. We also incorporate slots in out clutch pack to help prevent drag when foot breaking, great for turbo setups. Our one piece apply piston on our multi disk eliminates the possibility of a weld failure and allows for better flow through the clutch pack when unlocked. I could go on but you get the idea, we have invested a lot of time and R&D to make what we feel is the best billet front in the industry.

Next we will talk about the rest of the converter. Jake is right here, we use the same core options that anybody else does, 245mm, 258mm or 265mm. These 3 diameters along with multiple stator choices let us build a converter to handle just about any vehicle or power level. There are a lot of in house secrets we have learned over the years to achieve different results, stator choice, pump fin angle, stator position, internal clearances just to name a few. As far as the furnace brazing and TIG welding, all our billet converters get a furnace brazed pump and turbine. The 245mm and 265mm have TIG welded blades as well, GM did a great job on the 258mm and they are factory furnace brazed very well and do not require TIG welding till you get into big power.

Cliffs notes - We make our own billet parts in house and build a very nice converter.

Chris

Circle-D

iTrader: (21)

A few pics for you guys....

This is our CNC Lath cutting side 2 on a billet front.



Finished Multi disk showing our deep groove ball bearing



A 245mm turbine furnace brazed and TIG welded. We also CNC slots and holes to ensure good converter flow.

DANOZ28

iTrader: (1)

since i drive a 99 w 4l60e thats my preference. great input circle D , but im a little confused why converters cost so much if the cores & basic parts are all common. cheers everybody! ps when does a car need a multi disk? your photo looks like a work of art.

Circle-D

iTrader: (21)

Most of the cost is in the billet parts. I go with a multi disk on a heavy truck with some towing or if you are a big power car and want to lock under power. For most NA cars a single disk is fine - multi is overkill. Thanks, we have a passion for converters and really enjoy what we do.

Chris

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

TCI makes a range of converters. The big sellers are the
cheap Streetfighter series. They have wimpy clutches,
but I had no complaints about the fluidic portion of
mine. Where this "Ultimate" falls, relative to the known
wimpy standard Streetfighter versions, you probably ought
to be asking TCI to prove.

joecar

I'm late to this party, but here's opinion:

the pics in post #2 show poor brazing...

the usual (correct) manner of brazing fins is to braze each and every fin tab (the bent over tabs you see in the pics) completely around each tab's edge and also along the fin's edges where possible/accessible (see the Cirle-D pic of the turbine in post #48 for excellent example)...

the pics in post #2 show a large blob of braze filler deposited at one or two places on each fin of the turbine... so the fins can still rattle/shake and if fins move sufficiently fluid can cross leak... and there are blobs in the path of the fluid; and the impeller/pump looks like it has no brazing at all;

brazing can be done by hand (very tedious, each fin tab has to be done by hand) or by furnace brazing (brazing paste is applied to all the fins/tabs, and then the piece is baked in a suitable oven) which is quicker and cost effective;

what you see in the pics in post #2 is very poor and does not look what TCI does, see this (look closely, all fins/tabs brazed on turbine and pump)(expanded pic from url in post #41):

joecar

The Pro Torque site shows pics of good brazing (expanded pic from website from url in post #41):




Maybe TC makers should post pics of their internals on their websites (they should be proud of their workmanship, there is nothing to hide)