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Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E

 
Old 06-17-2014, 04:03 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by JDMC5 View Post
Ok cool, my trans guy is getting me the converter bushing, large pump seal, pump to case gasket, pressure plate and installing the converter/ pump bushing for 40 bucks. Not bad

Should I install the plug dry or use some kind of sealant?
It's a pretty tight press in the case, so you don't really need sealant. I would use a flat tipped punch and you should be good to go.
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:47 PM
  #22  
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Second seal from the top on the center support.
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:15 PM
  #23  
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So far so good
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:07 PM
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I am beyond pissed right now! I cannot get this $&@$&@ assembly back in!!!
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:12 PM
  #25  
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Never mind I got it, what a ******* nightmare!!!!
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:51 PM
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Ok I'm calm now lol. I hope hope my manual shows up soon as all I have to go by is my memory and an exploded view I printed off the Internet. I need a little clarification on snap rings. I was about to install this one in the pic, but I recall pulling 3 out of this area. There's a "normal" one, one with a beveled edge and the intermediate one. The one in the pic is the first one I'm installing. Looking at the exploded view, I was suppose to put one in after the roller, is this correct? I'm probably gonna set the car on fire. Had I know it was gonna be this much of a pita I would not have even bothered removing that god forsaken seal.
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  

Last edited by JDMC5; 06-17-2014 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:11 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by JDMC5 View Post
I am beyond pissed right now! I cannot get this $&@$&@ assembly back in!!!
Originally Posted by JDMC5 View Post
Ok I'm calm now lol. I hope hope my manual shows up soon as all I have to go by is my memory and an exploded view I printed off the Internet. I need a little clarification on snap rings. I was about to install this one in the pic, but I recall pulling 3 out of this area. There's a "normal" one, one with a beveled edge and the intermediate one. The one in the pic is the first one I'm installing. Looking at the exploded view, I was suppose to put one in after the roller, is this correct? I'm probably gonna set the car on fire. Had I know it was gonna be this much of a pita I would not have even bothered removing that god forsaken seal.
Haha easy there killer, take a deep breath.

All of your problems are very very simple fixes that I can help you solve. I'll post up for future reference again for anyone who may need to read this now or in the future (maybe a random Google search a year or two+ from now). When I tell you this you're going to kick yourself at how easy this is.

You were trying to put in the assembly all wrong.

Before I get into that, I'm just going to go ahead and add that now would be a REALLY good time to pull that assembly back out because you're going to have to anyways. Don't be pissed about putting it back in, it will be MUCH easier the next time around. While you have the assembly out, I would recommend getting ahold of a TH350 pump bearing and a shim kit and installing that in the rear rather than the 3 pronged/4-tang thrust washers that are back there from the factory. This rollerizes the rear and reduces parasitic horsepower. Rollerizing in other locations is good for stability, less parasitic power loss, and tightening up endplay. This step is optional but a nice touch and also something I do on any and every rebuild, even a "stock" rebuild.

Now, here's how you're going to re-install everything. You'll have to pull everything back out to put in the case saver ring.

Here's how you identify the snap rings you're going to be screwing with.

The bottom-most snap ring is often referred to as the case saver. It goes on the bottom most area possible where the case lugs are, right above the low/reverse band. This is a TH400 case and not my picture (except for the crudely done MS Paint additions, that was me) but it's the same as an 80E. Look at where the red arrow is pointing. That's the area you want to put the first ring, right there on the bottom lip. See the blue? Notice the gap in between the (poorly drawn) "lines"? That's where the case saver ring gap should be.

FYI: The case saver snap ring is identified by the fact that it's extremely thin and has pointy ends, not flat tipped. If you took out all 3 of the ones that are installed in the case itself, it's the thinnest one of the three.



Now before I go further here's how to make your life 10x easier when installing this. Do not try to install the entire lower half with the center support AND the sungear tube in place. Don't do that. Take off the center support and take out the sungear tube. Leave everything else in place. Grab the assembly by the main shaft and lower it in. Drop it in carefully and spin the output shaft a bit to make sure it's seated nice and good.

NOW, take the center support and line up the bolt hole in the center support as best as you can with where it is in the case. There's an easier trick to do this by looking at the lug patterns on the center support but it's difficult to explain without a picture and I can't seem to find a suitable one online. May have to save this for tomorrow when I get up to the shop. But if I don't do that before you do this, try your best to line it up visually and set it in there. It won't seat. All you do is spin the output shaft just a little bit and voila, it instantly drops. It will seat itself and that's when you immediately look at the center support hole in the case to see if you lined it up right or not. If not, take it out and adjust accordingly, second time should do the trick. You'd know very quickly by looking whether it looks like you lined up the holes in the center support with the holes in the case or not.

From here, slide in the sungear tube and give it a twist and it should drop in nice and easy. See? Easy

Now you have that installed. The next snap ring to worry about is the beveled snap ring. This one is easy to identify because it's very thick and is the only snap ring with a very noticeably beveled top surface to it. The top surface part of the center support should be fairly flush to the snap ring groove you're about to utilize. It should be apparent if you look in the case where the groove is.

Install the beveled snap ring the same way as the last one. It's just a lot thicker. Not a big deal and easy to install with a flat head.

Put in your intermediate clutch pack at this point, start with the steel then clutch and repeat until you've run out of clutches for the intermediates

This is when your new pressure plate would go in. Make sure the new one is the same thickness as the original!

After the clutch pack is in and you've put the pressure plate on top of it, don't worry about the wimpy snap ring you pulled out that comes in it stock, this is where the heavy duty (HD) snap ring from TransGo will be going and you'll be able to tell in the install why this is meant to prevent snap ring blow out

EDIT: If you're still uncertain, post up a picture of all of the snap rings you see and I will use that and tell you which ones go where specifically if my descriptions weren't all that great.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:28 AM
  #28  
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Ok I think I see what you are saying. What I'm unclear about is when the case saver goes in. Just before the center support? I tried installing it exactly how you describe, by spinning the output shaft but I can't seem to get the damn center support to drop in the roller while it's in the case, but I'll give it another shot.

Attached is a pic of where I think youre saying the snap rings go.

Also, where can I get the th350 bearing and shim kit? How do I install it?
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  

Last edited by JDMC5; 06-18-2014 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:08 PM
  #29  
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Ah should have clarified that. Put the case saver in before you put anything in. The way a case looks before I drop any of the actual assembly in is the bearing on the bottom of the case is sitting in place, the low/reverse band is installed in place, and then the case saver ring. Once those are all in place, I then drop the assembly in like I mentioned before.

Occasionally a spin won't quite do it so just reach in through the case and push down on the center support a bit while spinning the shaft and that should do it.

Trying to do it with the center support in place AND the sungear tube would be a ******* nightmare, as you now realize Dropping the center support should be a no brainer easy process though.

The proper way to do the rear rollerizing procedure would be

- Use a bushing driver (can borrow a set for free from any auto store) and tap the old bushing out

- Install a wider TH400 case bushing. Install it with a slight lip going into the case, just enough that it keep the shim/bearing in place.

Put the shim on, then the bearing. Done.

As for where to get it, normally in a situation like this I would be able to offer you the parts but an order of a small scale like that for a bushing, shim kit and bearing would not be a very good cost:time:worth it ratio for likely either of us.

I looked in your area and if you go to the Transtar Industries location in Hazel Park, they'll have exactly what you need for a good price.
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:50 PM
  #30  
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Cool, my manual showed up today, hopefully it's worth a damn. I'll give putting the center support in another shot tonight. The damn rollers just don't wanna accept the center support. If I can get it in I should be golden, I'll let you know

Oh yes, and it WAS a ******* nightmare, but I got it lol. Funny part is, I tried the correct method before the incorrect method lol
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:55 PM
  #31  
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Ok got it in on the first try lol. Not easy working on the garage floor. My ATSG showed up too. Lots of good reading here. The funny part is the manual says to do it the way I originally did lol. Probably helps to have the special tool. Thank you VERY much "North texas converter". What's your name btw? I owe you big time, if you ever have any tuning questions just ask, I street and dyno tune on the side.
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  

Last edited by JDMC5; 06-18-2014 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:02 PM
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Heres a good view of where the first snap ring goes
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:21 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by JDMC5 View Post
Ok got it in on the first try lol. Not easy working on the garage floor. My ATSG showed up too. Lots of good reading here. The funny part is the manual says to do it the way I originally did lol. Probably helps to have the special tool. Thank you VERY much "North texas converter". What's your name btw? I owe you big time, if you ever have any tuning questions just ask, I street and dyno tune on the side.
Good to hear man! I'm glad you were able to get it sorted out. The garage floor does make things that much more of a pain for sure. Whenever I've been in a non-shop environment I've used various makeshift fixtures to hold the case up off the ground to make things easier. I know of the tool you are referring to in the ATSG, but I have personally never even seen one in person, let alone used one, nor have I known any other builders that have used it. The way I described earlier is the common way, the ATSG just has to be more "proper" in certain respects.

My name is Stephen. There's three of us here; Cody who goes back and forth between transmissions and converters, me who only does transmissions and takes care of the phones/sales/internet side of things, and JT who only builds the converters, also takes care of the internet side of things, phone calls when the topic is more suited for him, and he's also our tuner.

If you ever find yourself in the DFW area for anyone reason, be sure to stop by and give us a shout!
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:32 PM
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I'm thinking I will continue to post here as my build progresses, this is good info on 4L80 stuff. I plan on doing a very detailed write up of the swap as well, as soon as I get time.

Last edited by JDMC5; 06-18-2014 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:13 PM
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Ok here's a good pic of the direct drum assembly. You are talking about seal 605 correct?
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  

Last edited by JDMC5; 06-18-2014 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:33 PM
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It seems there is already a hole in my direct drum
Attached Thumbnails Broken intermediate snap ring 4L80E-image.jpg  
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:35 PM
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Another view with the clutches removed
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:44 PM
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Sorry to keep posting but here is a really good shot of what you were describing pertaining to dual feed. After seeing this view I'm pretty sure you were talking about seal 622.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:13 PM
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Seal 622 is correct to remove for dual feed.

The hole you see is stock and is there to drain the clutch pack area of the drum. You need to put a hole BELOW the piston.
Shown here:



We go a little bigger than .030" and it's not a big deal to put the HD springs on the direct drum in the 4L80E.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:14 PM
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Was the original snap ring broken into pieces or was it out of it's groove?
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